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Old 08-13-2010, 07:16 AM
 
461 posts, read 2,000,618 times
Reputation: 371

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Quote:
Originally Posted by SeventhFloor View Post
victorfox, i actually respect your love for the bronx and i too one day hope that it will be fully restored to its grandeur. but please dont make this a color issue, as its about money. it doesnt matter who moves into the hood and gentrifies it. its about if they have money or not. and i have told you this before on several posts. i really dislike that you say it takes white people to beautify a ghetto. its not color its socioeconomic status. race has nothing to do with the beautification of a neighborhood.
Seventh...my comment was addressing Das's comment that "I bash every group but my own". Which is NOT true because I "bash" latinos just as much as blacks and I'M LATINO. If I see latinos are at fault, I have no problem putting them on blast. Same goes for black people as well as white.

Here in NY (may be different in other states) predominately all white neighborhoods tend to look nicer and more desirable than predominately black or latino neighborhoods. Why? It's not just because white people have money. It has to do more with white people VALUE and MAINTAIN their property and/or neighborhood even if they're renters. The mentality is totally different. For example, when I visit white neighborhoods, I see white people picking up after their dogs which is the right thing to do. When I go to a predominately "minority" neighborhood, the residents walk their pitbulls, let them take a crap in the middle of the sidewalk and NOT pick it up. The mentality is totally different.

About 2 months ago there was a beautifully new constructed building on east tremont in the Bronx that enhanced the curb appeal of the area. The same day they took down the plywood walls, the building got bombed with graffiti and tags all over and people in the neighborhood were throwing their cigarette butts into the beautiful landscaping plants in front of the building. You see? You can't have anything nice in the hood without "minorities" messing it up. My point is, it goes beyond having money. It doesn't take having money to appreciate or respect other people's property or having pride for your neighborhood for that matter. Put that same building in an all white neighborhood and I guarantee you it would not be bombed out with graffiti.
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Old 08-13-2010, 09:39 AM
 
Location: NYC
2,223 posts, read 5,354,372 times
Reputation: 1101
"It doesn't take having money to appreciate or respect other people's property or having pride for your neighborhood for that matter."

No, but there is evidence of a correlation between education, income level, respect for public space/ property ownership, and the presence of well-maintained neighborhoods. There are "minorities" (defined above as black and Latino) that do possess these attributes and whites who don't all over the world. Hence, there are all-minority, well-maintained neighborhoods and all white slums.

In neighborhoods that are constructed by race as opposed to income/educational levels, you get a hodgepodge of people of varying education, economic levels, and mindsets living together, and the unfortunate result is bad apples spoiling the rest of the bunch.

IMO, race doesn't dictate a bad neighborhood. The combination of poverty, lack of education, a sense of hopelessness and a disrespectful attitude does.

From what I understand, there is deep-rooted poverty among whites in London and they have lived in slum neighborhoods together for decades. In England, your social class, carries more weight in determining who you are/what you can become than your race. There's a lot written on this over in the London and UK forums. It's an interesting read if you are open to a different perspective.

Last edited by queensgrl; 08-13-2010 at 09:47 AM.. Reason: typo
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Old 08-13-2010, 01:58 PM
 
34,097 posts, read 47,302,110 times
Reputation: 14273
Quote:
Originally Posted by victorfox View Post
Seventh...my comment was addressing Das's comment that "I bash every group but my own". Which is NOT true because I "bash" latinos just as much as blacks and I'M LATINO. If I see latinos are at fault, I have no problem putting them on blast. Same goes for black people as well as white.

Here in NY (may be different in other states) predominately all white neighborhoods tend to look nicer and more desirable than predominately black or latino neighborhoods. Why? It's not just because white people have money. It has to do more with white people VALUE and MAINTAIN their property and/or neighborhood even if they're renters. The mentality is totally different. For example, when I visit white neighborhoods, I see white people picking up after their dogs which is the right thing to do. When I go to a predominately "minority" neighborhood, the residents walk their pitbulls, let them take a crap in the middle of the sidewalk and NOT pick it up. The mentality is totally different.

About 2 months ago there was a beautifully new constructed building on east tremont in the Bronx that enhanced the curb appeal of the area. The same day they took down the plywood walls, the building got bombed with graffiti and tags all over and people in the neighborhood were throwing their cigarette butts into the beautiful landscaping plants in front of the building. You see? You can't have anything nice in the hood without "minorities" messing it up. My point is, it goes beyond having money. It doesn't take having money to appreciate or respect other people's property or having pride for your neighborhood for that matter. Put that same building in an all white neighborhood and I guarantee you it would not be bombed out with graffiti.
well where i live, some of the white people are lower and middle class, and some of their blocks look the same as you describe. so i dont think race is really the issue.
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Old 08-13-2010, 02:08 PM
 
Location: The Port City is rising.
8,868 posts, read 12,564,078 times
Reputation: 2604
"I am basing my opinion on my OBSERVATIONS of NYC in 2010. I personally can not name even 1 ghetto white neighborhood comparable to Bed-stuy. morisania, east NY, etc. It doesn't exist. "

thats the result of certain particular socio-economic trends in NYC, coupled with broader national trends of decreasing white poverty since 1960. I know when I went off to Boston to college in 1977 it was easy to be taken aback by how "ghetto" white neighborhoods not only existed, but were fairly common. NYC, with its particular sets of industries, its relatively unusual mix of white immigrant groups, has been on a course towards fewer white "ghetto" nabe than other cities for a long time. Though I guess even as late as 1977 one could have found a few, with not too much looking.

Today even lower middle class white nabes in NYC re getting scare, no?
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Old 08-13-2010, 02:12 PM
 
876 posts, read 2,142,389 times
Reputation: 386
Quote:
Originally Posted by queensgrl View Post
"It doesn't take having money to appreciate or respect other people's property or having pride for your neighborhood for that matter."

No, but there is evidence of a correlation between education, income level, respect for public space/ property ownership, and the presence of well-maintained neighborhoods. There are "minorities" (defined above as black and Latino) that do possess these attributes and whites who don't all over the world. Hence, there are all-minority, well-maintained neighborhoods and all white slums.

In neighborhoods that are constructed by race as opposed to income/educational levels, you get a hodgepodge of people of varying education, economic levels, and mindsets living together, and the unfortunate result is bad apples spoiling the rest of the bunch.

IMO, race doesn't dictate a bad neighborhood. The combination of poverty, lack of education, a sense of hopelessness and a disrespectful attitude does.

From what I understand, there is deep-rooted poverty among whites in London and they have lived in slum neighborhoods together for decades. In England, your social class, carries more weight in determining who you are/what you can become than your race. There's a lot written on this over in the London and UK forums. It's an interesting read if you are open to a different perspective.
Have you been to london england?
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Old 08-13-2010, 02:14 PM
 
876 posts, read 2,142,389 times
Reputation: 386
Quote:
Originally Posted by SeventhFloor View Post
well where i live, some of the white people are lower and middle class, and some of their blocks look the same as you describe. so i dont think race is really the issue.
Really what neighborhood are you from?
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Old 08-13-2010, 02:16 PM
 
876 posts, read 2,142,389 times
Reputation: 386
Quote:
Originally Posted by victorfox View Post
We are talking about NY, not London, Idaho or Old West Bubblef**k. I don't care how these other states or countries are. All I care about is NYC..especially the Bronx. Public education is free. You can become the next president of the U.S. on a public education.

I am basing my opinion on my OBSERVATIONS of NYC in 2010. I personally can not name even 1 ghetto white neighborhood comparable to Bed-stuy. morisania, east NY, etc. It doesn't exist.

And you mean to tell me that every single white person in a good neighborhood has a master's degree and PHD with 6 figure incomes? No, I don't think so. Money plays a part but it goes far beyond that.
I dont think you get it. These people are liberal, and live in their own dream world where everybody is the same. We are all different which is a good thing. By the way I dont mean to get off topic but this gets no my nerves. We are not the same and there is no reason for a 5 foot woman cop or firefighter, she cant do the same as a man.
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Old 08-13-2010, 02:22 PM
 
34,097 posts, read 47,302,110 times
Reputation: 14273
Quote:
Originally Posted by DSNYSANMAN View Post
Really what neighborhood are you from?
rockaway
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Old 08-13-2010, 02:30 PM
 
Location: NYC
2,223 posts, read 5,354,372 times
Reputation: 1101
Quote:
Originally Posted by DSNYSANMAN View Post
Have you been to london england?
I have not but I will be going soon. What I know of London is based on reading and accounts of people who have lived there.

I have done original research on neighborhood profiles, which was based on communities in and around Boston, MA. My next research might compare NYC & London.
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Old 08-13-2010, 02:32 PM
 
876 posts, read 2,142,389 times
Reputation: 386
Quote:
Originally Posted by SeventhFloor View Post
rockaway
Rockaway, queens? That is not a white area anymore. It hasnt been a white area in years.
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