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Old 08-13-2010, 04:31 PM
 
Location: Nassau, Long Island, NY
16,408 posts, read 33,295,819 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SobroGuy View Post
Ok let's bring this back to reality. NYC is required BY LAW to house the homeless since 1980 I believe. Why is this significant? Because it essentially sealed the fate for NYC and the housing projects. Unless that law changes, the projects and the poor aren't going anywhere in NYC. And the reality is the housing projects are mostly in excellent locations and in pretty good condition, and are currently being repositioned as working class housing.

If you don't like the housing projects because they look bad...that's nothing more than simply changing the facade to make it look more aesthetically pleasing. But they are not going anywhere...best case scenario is that they become the choice (or rather only) destination for the working class of NYC. And that ain't so bad.
It was that way once, even for people in the middle class. I know someone whose dad was a police lt. and she said they lived in the projects before her dad retired and they moved out of state. I was surprised to hear that. I always thought him being a police lt. they had a house. I know he could afford to send the family upstate all summer and could afford to buy a house once he retired out of state. She's not even that old either (not a sr. citizen) and she's white and jewish.
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Old 08-13-2010, 04:41 PM
 
876 posts, read 2,141,877 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bluedog2 View Post
Ever been to Breezy Point ?
Breezy Point, Queens - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

From wiki :
"Demographics

According to the United States Census Bureau, the community's ZIP code (11697) has the nation's highest concentration of Irish-Americans, at 60.3% as of the United States Census, 2000.[4] It functions mainly as a summer get-away for many residents of New York. Estimates put summer residency at 12,000, while year-round residency was 4337 in the most recent Census.[4]
Due to its large concentration of Irish-Americans, Breezy Point has been called the "Irish Riviera."[5]
Others within the community often refer to it as being "Cois Farraige", Gaelic for "By The Sea."
[edit]
ok we are talking about two different areas. I am talking about far rockaway which I thought he was refering to. Right over the bridge is breezy point which is all white and a very nice area. It is very clean there and kept very nice. I have no idea what he was talking about saying people there are the same as what victorfox described from the bronx.
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Old 08-13-2010, 04:47 PM
 
876 posts, read 2,141,877 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by queensgrl View Post
It's the case in most American cities, actually. A good example of a white neighborhood that stayed poor for a long time is south boston. but even southie is gentrifying now.
You are talking about getto white areas in england, getto white areas in boston. You sure travel a lot but why to all these getto white areas? Ever go to any getto white areas in france or spain?
If you really want to go to some getto white areas you need to go to eastern europe and russia. Those areas you can compare to what you see in black and hispanic areas in america and western europe.

You see when the government takes care of the people that is when the people become lazy and dont care. Section 8 people dont earn their apt so they treat it like it is worthless which it is for them since they dont work for it. I am not a landlord and never will be because I know what they go through. I have known some pretty tough guys who rented an apt out and they always had a hard time getting the bad tenants out. It just isnt worth it. If you dont get rent you lose money on paying for the heat and water.
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Old 08-13-2010, 04:57 PM
 
34,018 posts, read 47,252,748 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DSNYSANMAN View Post
ok we are talking about two different areas. I am talking about far rockaway which I thought he was refering to. Right over the bridge is breezy point which is all white and a very nice area. It is very clean there and kept very nice. I have no idea what he was talking about saying people there are the same as what victorfox described from the bronx.
no i wasnt referring to far rockaway at all. to be specific i was referring to rockaway beach and rockaway park. breezy point is irish too, but a little more affluent. when one says rockaway, they really mean the enitre peninsula. mea culpa for not being more precise.
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Old 08-13-2010, 05:10 PM
 
Location: Nassau, Long Island, NY
16,408 posts, read 33,295,819 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by queensgrl View Post
"It doesn't take having money to appreciate or respect other people's property or having pride for your neighborhood for that matter."

No, but there is evidence of a correlation between education, income level, respect for public space/ property ownership, and the presence of well-maintained neighborhoods. There are "minorities" (defined above as black and Latino) that do possess these attributes and whites who don't all over the world. Hence, there are all-minority, well-maintained neighborhoods and all white slums.

In neighborhoods that are constructed by race as opposed to income/educational levels, you get a hodgepodge of people of varying education, economic levels, and mindsets living together, and the unfortunate result is bad apples spoiling the rest of the bunch.

IMO, race doesn't dictate a bad neighborhood. The combination of poverty, lack of education, a sense of hopelessness and a disrespectful attitude does.

From what I understand, there is deep-rooted poverty among whites in London and they have lived in slum neighborhoods together for decades. In England, your social class, carries more weight in determining who you are/what you can become than your race. There's a lot written on this over in the London and UK forums. It's an interesting read if you are open to a different perspective.
I agree that there are plenty of dirtbag whites out there trashing their entire communities. I even get sick of people using the term white trash on LI because they really don't know what true white trash is compared to the rest of the country.

Quick question: when you mention "social class" as per the UK is it judged in terms of a person's income or in terms of a person's ancestors (example: titled nobility, etc.)?
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Old 08-13-2010, 05:41 PM
 
Location: NYC
2,223 posts, read 5,352,167 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by I_Love_LI_but View Post

Quick question: when you mention "social class" as per the UK is it judged in terms of a person's income or in terms of a person's ancestors (example: titled nobility, etc.)?
This might help explain it a bit Social Structure of the UK
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Old 08-13-2010, 05:41 PM
 
Location: Nassau, Long Island, NY
16,408 posts, read 33,295,819 times
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Back to bulldozing public housing:

I know the title of the thread is specific to Manhattan, but now that we are talking about the Rockaways, here is something I have heard. The powers that be would like to get rid of all or at least some of the projects there and are using the evictions of anyone who sells drugs or lets someone who sells drugs live with them from the projects and are not replacing the tenants who get evicted (or tenants who move out on their own) and there are more and more of what they call "dark apartments" in project buildings in the Rockaways. Supposedly there is/was a plan to empty some of the buildings and consolidate tenants into other buildings and knock down the empty buildings for development. I think this plan started before the current economic meltdown when they decided beachfront property is too valuable to have projects on. I didn't know why they put projects on the ocean in the first place. It could have been a plan that getting the poor out of the inner city into the "fresh air" would help. Or the Rockaways were underpopulated at that time and just had a lot of space. Or that developers and land owners in the area "cornered the market" on housing projects and made a fortune at the time. Is there any other place than New York that has prime waterfront/beachfront property with projects?
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Old 08-13-2010, 05:45 PM
 
Location: Nassau, Long Island, NY
16,408 posts, read 33,295,819 times
Reputation: 7339
Quote:
Originally Posted by queensgrl View Post
This might help explain it a bit Social Structure of the UK
I will read that. Thanks.
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Old 08-13-2010, 05:53 PM
 
Location: NYC
2,223 posts, read 5,352,167 times
Reputation: 1101
Quote:
Originally Posted by DSNYSANMAN View Post
You are talking about getto white areas in england, getto white areas in boston. You sure travel a lot but why to all these getto white areas? Ever go to any getto white areas in france or spain?
If you really want to go to some getto white areas you need to go to eastern europe and russia. Those areas you can compare to what you see in black and hispanic areas in america and western europe.
I lived in the boston area and have been to southie a lot. other places i've been were mainly in the US, for work. i hope to visit the UK and once i have a better handle on spanish, south america. i have heard some scary stories about eastern europe and russia. our ghettos seem tame in comparison.
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Old 08-13-2010, 06:02 PM
 
Location: Beautiful Pelham Parkway,The Bronx
9,246 posts, read 24,069,701 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by I_Love_LI_but View Post
.... Is there any other place than New York that has prime waterfront/beachfront property with projects?
Boston has one.It was called Columbia Point and it became one of the most horrendous housing projects in the country. 50 Acres right on the ocean ,10 minutes from the center of the city! When I was growing up it was definitely the scariest,most crime ridden place in the city.In 1984 it was like a lawless separate city and they had to hand it over to private developers who gradually bulldozed it and turned it into a semi public mixed income apartment complex called Harbor Point.Sort of an equivalent of an NYCHPD development.
Today it is viewed as a successful model of public housing revitalization.
When you read how they started enforcing rules and getting rid of problem tenants it sounds just like what you are describing in Rockaway.

A Decent Place to Live: From Columbia Point to Harbor Point : Records, 1951-2000 | Joseph P. Healey Library

Some cool "before" and "after":
http://www.designobserver.com/media/...ject_t_204.pdf

Last edited by bluedog2; 08-13-2010 at 06:22 PM..
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