From Montreal to NYC (Concord, Nassau: apartments, rent, loft)
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I'm a 22 year old student in Montreal. I'm originally from the US, but I moved here for University 3 years ago. I am thinking of moving to NYC (Brooklyn) after I graduate and wanted some advice on if I have a good plan or not.
To give you some background on me. If I move, by the time I do, I'll have a B.A. Joint Honours (Double major with Honours, in other words) in Creative Writing and English Lit with a minor in Philosophy. I speak intermediate French and it'll probably be even better by the time I move. I have a lot of work experience - restaurants (busboy), call centers (but.. never again), cafes, and most recently a VERY nice cooperatively run not for profit bookstore. I'm gay, have a few friends in NY, and I may also be getting modeling gigs soon as side employment.
But most of all, I'm a writer and I want to move to NY for the inspiration, the culture, the nightlife, and the fact that there is a big writing community there and a lot of publishers and the like. I have a couple of pieces (fiction and poetry) that could be published by the time I move, according to my professors, so that would help opportunities too.
The only thing I'm worried about is the economics of it, of course. I'm from a middle class family who has helped me get through University a bit but once I graduate I'm on my own. My plan is to move to one of the cheaper Brooklyn neighborhoods like Bed-Stuy or Bushwick and work for a year before applying to graduate school (the new school). I'll be 23 by the time I move.
I'm very, very, very used to living cheaply here in MTL. I'm fine with living with roomates - I've lived with up to 3 here. I don't buy a lot of stuff, I don't pay for TV, only rent, utilities, cell, internet. The only thing I ever really spend discretionary money on is partying. But anyways, my point is that MTL has a bohemian vibe to it and I've tapped into that quite well.
My question is, what should I be prepared for? I swear I've heard absolute horror stories about rent in NYC. I talk to some people from NY that say what I've heard is nonsense, though. Most of the horror stories are from people that have never lived there, and just heard from a friend of a friend. Like people paying 600+ a month to live in a closet, or to share a room the size of 2 bunk beds with another person, just these absolutely ridiculous things. I go on Brooklyn craigslist sometimes and see ads all the time for private rooms in shared apartments - middle to normal sized rooms - for a cut of about 600 or so a month. Usually in Bushwick/east williamsburg/bed-stuy. Is there a catch here than I'm missing?
My other question has to do with employment. Let me stress that I have always had pretty good luck finding jobs, many times I've been hired on the spot - what can I say, I'm cute and people like me. But if I wanted to work for a year before applying to grad school in, let's say, a book store, how much would I expect to be paid? If it was minimum wage (7.25), how do people afford to live there? My other employment options are copywriting, or maybe doing something related to computers/phone work (data entry, technical support, whatever). I'd prefer to find a job where I'm making at least 10 dollars an hour. I'll have a year of bookstore experience and an English Lit/Writing degree, so I'd prefer to go in a bookstore, but I'm wondering what they would pay.
So, that's it. Is it possible to get by in NYC with roommates and living in a cheaper 'hood if you work a 'normal' job while you're in between studies?
The job market is still pretty bad right now so you will be up against a lot of competition even for menial jobs. I would suggest dropping your resume at every temp agency in the city. You have to literally knock on doors and visit 4 or 5 a day, if you're not willing to hustle, you won't survive in NYC because the competition is fierce.
That being said, it's not unreasonable to expect $15 an hour for any temp position. With that, you can probably afford a room for around $500 a month in the outer boroughs. Just master your Microsoft suite of products as you will be tested on these at any temp agency.
Honestly, it's all about timing, luck and meeting and clicking with the right people at the right time. It's also about speaking the language of the position you're trying to land. Many people neglect to use the buzzwords, acronyms, jargon etc of the position they're applying for. Interviewing is like trying to pick someone up in a foreign language, the person that speaks it more fluently and convincingly is going to be more successful at it.
My plan is to move to one of the cheaper Brooklyn neighborhoods like Bed-Stuy or Bushwick and work for a year before applying to graduate school (the new school). I'll be 23 by the time I move.
I go on Brooklyn craigslist sometimes and see ads all the time for private rooms in shared apartments - middle to normal sized rooms - for a cut of about 600 or so a month. Usually in Bushwick/east williamsburg/bed-stuy. Is there a catch here than I'm missing?
Considering those are some of the most dangerous neighborhoods in the city, I would say safety is the catch. If you are used to drug-dealing and places where murder is fairly common then go for it. Bushwick seems to be gentrifying a little but it still is BAD.
Thanks for the responses. Well, the danger with temping is that it's... temporary, right? Handing out 5 resumes a day would not be a problem for me, in Montreal I've handed out 10 a day for a week in a row, then find a job. But, 500 dollars for a room in the outter boroughs? So things like this do exist? Are we talking about a total hell hole in a ghetto?
I visited Bushwick once (I've only been to NY once) and my friend and me stayed at the NY Loft Hostel. I should have brought up the issue of safety before. I'm a skinny white pretty boy, I do wear skinny jeans, and I'm a little worried about where I choose to live because I do quite enjoy late nights out until 3-4AM. This is EXTREMELY common in Montreal though and I've never had a serious altercation from walking home late. But then again Montreal, despite being a big city, is also a Canadian city and is generally just safer. My point is, while I want to live somewhere affordable, I do not want to live somewhere too dangerous that I couldn't walk home at 3 AM without getting ****ed up. Maybe this depends on how close the apartment is to the subway station. But from what I understand, Bushwick is gentrifying rapidly.
If there are other neighborhoods I should consider that are simply less expensive because they're family/working class oriented, please make a suggestion. I do not by any means need to live in a hipsterish area, for me, the thing is, I'm actually broke and will be in student debt and just need to find a room for 500-650 a month or so.
I read the thread on Bushwick here (//www.city-data.com/forum/new-y...-area-all.html) and it does seem like the verdict is not yet out on safety, I also read a big thread about if The Bronx or Brooklyn is more dangerous, and it seemed like Bushwick was still listed as a dangerous neighborhood by most people. But from what I've heard and seen, near the stations by the Morgan L, it seemed okay. Although, I have to admit, compared to the friendly streets of Montreal's Plateau, Mile End and Gay village 'hoods, it did seem incredibly industrial and not very populated... a little creepy.
Also, any ideas about how much a bookstore would pay?
You can get a tiny room in Astoria or LIC Queens, 10 minutes away from Midtown and even a comfortable, normal sized room deeper into Queens in safe areas like Sunnyside, Maspeth, Woodside, Rego Park, Kew Gardens and Jackson Heights. Queens might not be that hip but it's definitely safer than the Bronx or Brooklyn and much cheaper than the desirable areas of Manhattan and Brooklyn. The more roomies you have, the cheaper it will be. These $500 rooms don't come by often, usually it's closer to $800 - $1000, but they definitely do exist.
Also you can't compare MTL to NYC. MTL (and pretty much all of Canada) is much safer than the sketchy areas that you'd be stumbling home drunk at 3 am in in Brooklyn.
You'll probably get $10 or less working at a bookstore. They won't pay much more than minimum wage. The key is to land a long term temp job that has the chance to go permanent, and just impress them or use it as a springboard to a similar permanent position. There's no such thing as a permanent job nowadays anyway.
Hey, thanks so much for your response! Very informative. So if this is true, why do I keep hearing all of these horror stories about rent? Do you think it's just here-say and out-of-towners tend to exaggerate?
I'll look into the places you mentioned in Queens. By tiny, how tiny do you mean? As long as it's big enough for a twin sized bed and maybe a desk, that's fine. I won't be home much. Glad to hear that roomies will make it cheaper - I could handle up to 4, as long as everyone is responsible and does their own thing. If $500 rooms exist in safe neighborhoods like that, then that's great! I could be sure to find a 600 one then. Are these neighborhoods in proximity to the kinds of places I'd want to go out? I'm thinking like Lower East Side, the Village, Chelsea, etc. If I have to trek over to Brooklyn for some more alternative stuff, that's fine. Do you agree that Bushwick is still dangerous? Also, I thought the NYC Subway doesn't go that deep into Queens... am I mistaken? Is it all bus lines, then?
I agree about MTL. It's a great city, hip, very safe, but I think the differences in Canadian society (less poverty, wayyy less guns, less racial tension) make it hard to compare to NY in that regard.
As for the bookstore. The thing is, if I'm making minimum wage and working 40 hours a week, I'd be getting about 1,000 a month, which is just barely enough to pay rent and survive and *maybe* be able to pay off 50 dollars on student loans every month. But it'd be really hard. If I was making at least 10, things wouldn't be SO bad. I'll have a University degree, experience and all that, so I see no reason why I should be making minimum wage. I'll look into the temping idea - hopefully it won't be too hard to get hired for something like that in advance, like have it lined up from Montreal before a move?
Location: Red Hook Brooklyn-winter Derby Line Vermont-summer
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If I had a choice and spoke conversational French,I would stay in Montreal if at all possible.Not that I am saying,stay there NYC doesn't want you in fact exactly the opposite,if your set on NYC go for it! But the cities are both very similar,less crime in MTL although it's dangerous in places (Montreal Nord comes to mind.) The current Canadian economy seems fairly stable.The Canadian dollar has gone from 65 cents to the US dollar to almost par in the last 10 years.You can always try to find some older,maybe grad school type roomates in the McGill ghetto area and cover alot of potential employers from that central location.I can only speak to my experience in Montreal proper,I don't know about life in Laval,or the other boroughs.I'm guessing Anglophone Westmount is too expensive.
Are you a McGill man BTW?
The trains go all over Queens, all the way to Jamaica / JFK, near the Nassau County border. My take on it is safety above all. I don't care if I don't live in a hip area as long as I can get to wherever I want to hang out within an hour train ride. There are definitely many fun spots to hang out in Queens, but they're not well discovered neighborhoods like the East Village where you'll find tourists hanging out. I doubt you'll find a $500 - $600 room in Williamsburg or any other neighborhood close to Manhattan in Brooklyn. Brooklyn is considered just as desirable and hip as Manhattan - even more so for the younger set. I'm sure you can get a normal 10 x 12 room with windows in a nice apartment with one other roommate on a safe block close to the train somewhere deep into Queens. The closer you get to Manhattan, generally the more expensive it gets, but sometimes you get lucky.
Don't get me wrong, it's still expensive to live in NY. In the outer boroughs it'll cost at least $1500 for a one bedroom unless you rent out a floor in a private home, which is very common - that's where the deals are. Apartments in private homes are cheaper, safer, you live month to month and don't get rent increases, don't have to deal with loud neighbors and they're usually roach free because there's less people and less garbage. In Manhattan, you'll have to pay $2200 for a nice studio or $2600 for a one bedroom. Everything becomes cheaper when you get roomies obviously, but then everything also gets more cramped, less comfortable and privacy becomes an issue. Ideally you'd just room with a friend or a significant other and then you're in a win win situation.
In my opinion you need to be earning at least $35K (around $15 - $16 an hour) with one other roommate in the outer boroughs, just to survive in NYC. Anything less than that will be uncomfortable and not worth it in my opinion.
If I had a choice and spoke conversational French,I would stay in Montreal if at all possible.Not that I am saying,stay there NYC doesn't want you in fact exactly the opposite,if your set on NYC go for it! But the cities are both very similar,less crime in MTL although it's dangerous in places (Montreal Nord comes to mind.) The current Canadian economy seems fairly stable.The Canadian dollar has gone from 65 cents to the US dollar to almost par in the last 10 years.You can always try to find some older,maybe grad school type roomates in the McGill ghetto area and cover alot of potential employers from that central location.I can only speak to my experience in Montreal proper,I don't know about life in Laval,or the other boroughs.I'm guessing Anglophone Westmount is too expensive.
Are you a McGill man BTW?
I am pretty much set on NYC because, like I mentioned, I plan on going to grad school there. I want to live there and work there a six months to a year before applying to grad school, though. So basically, my choices is between spending a gap year in NY to get to know the city, or in Montreal, which I think will seem more like a post-college slump than an exciting gap year. Montreal is not an issue for me financially. It'd be way cheaper to stay here and work for a year but uh... way less exciting. I'm a young urban gay city boy and this scene has gotten a little old fast. I mean, it's still super fun, this is a really awesome city, but I want to experience something even better. I also don't want to move to NYC for grad school and have to handle doing grad school and getting to know a new city at the same time. And even though I do speak some French, it'd be nice to live in a city where it doesn't feel like having English as a first language is a disadvantage in the job market. Oh, and my degree is from Concordia, because McGill doesn't have a creative writing program.
Biskit - that all signs fine, doable. I agree about train rides, that doesn't bother me. I also doubt finding a room for that price in Manhattan (obviously) or even the nice parts of Brooklyn, which is why, for Brooklyn, I was thinking more along the lines of Bushwick. Queens is starting to find more appealing, especially if I can find a normal sized room with a couple of roommates (preferably 2 or 3) for around 500 or 600 (650 tops) a month.
I'm obviously in no position to be able to afford a studio or anything like that. How much does renting a room in a private home in say, Brooklyn or Queens usually cost? I have not really heard of this concept.
I think if I look into the temping thing or copywriting, $15 an hour is possible for me. But even if I go with bookselling, if they pay $10 an hour, I think I could make it... I'm pretty frugal. Hopefully a modeling contract on the side would help too.
It's hard to explain to you guys why I would want to move out of MTL. It has a lot to do with the cultural climate of this city. It's very cultured, but it's also very cheap. Sure, there's a strong arts community and all that bohemian stuff, but when you can live in St. Henri or the Plateau for 250-350 a month with roommates, ANYONE can afford to be an artist, which means it's flooded with artsy types but nothing really feels serious. It's like the OPPOSITE of NY's trust fund hipster problem. It's so easy to get by here just being a cheap artist type that I sometimes feel like it attracts... well, lazy people. I'm not lazy. So yeah, it's easier to get by, sure, but there's also less contacts and less chance of having a sort of "big break" so to speak. I could go on for a while, but I think you get the gist of it.
"Are we talking about a total hell hole in a ghetto?"
Yes we are. I happenned to be in Bushwick a few weeks ago. I stayed after dark, and it was not so good. Some drug addicts here and there. There were shady lookin' thugs in the area. I think I even heard gunshots.
IMO, Bed-Stuy is even worse. They don't call it Bed-Stuy Do or Die for nothing. You have lots of drug dealing and crime. A few years back the weirdest thing happenned to me in Bed-Stuy. I was in Bed-Stuy late at night and as I was driving through the area, I saw some big guy holding what looked to be an assault rifle. I have no idea why he had it. Anyways I got out of there as soon as possible. This wasn't the 80s or 90s. This was 2007.
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