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Old 07-10-2007, 11:35 PM
 
1,529 posts, read 2,274,275 times
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The truth is... It all depends on who you are.

Although the homicide/crime rate in NYC is lower then many major American cities, the rate of killings/crime among African Americans and Puerto Rican males in NYC is about the same as high crime cities. It is as high a rate for the same groups in cities such as Newark NJ or Philly. African American/Puerto Rican homicide rates in poor inner city communities across the USA are virtually the same. In the 100's per 100,000.

This is a fact. It is not racial, but has a lot to do with poverty and the Hip Hop culture.

If NYC were to instantly loose all it's immigrants. Not only would our population be lower then the 1970's but we would have one of the highest crime/murder rates in the country. Right up there with Philly and Detroit. Areas like the South Bronx and Harlem would also still be miles of non stop abandoned buildings and vacant lots due to the loss in population (these areas experanced the biggest population gains thanks to immigrants, filled in most of the shells that litted these areas in the 1970's).

Legal immigrants have lowered the crime/murder rate in NYC by offsetting the stats. Immigrants are less likely to be murder victims then these two groups. There was once a time when being Latino in NYC ment being Puerto Rican, and Black African American.

Other cities like Newark and Philly are not attracting these immigrants. In Philly for example which is looking to be the murder and crime capital of the country next year, the city is not only loosing population but not attracting immigrants. The Blacks there are African American, the Latinos are Puerto Rican.

NYC is a city of different worlds. One of the most segregated cities in terms of race and income in the USA. If your a young African American or Puerto Rican male, NYC can be hell. If your a White female or Asian it can be a dream come true. Two completely different worlds.

I also forgot to mention, has crime dropped. Yes. Across the country crime has dropped for all these groups. That is if you compare it to the crack epidemic. It's still commited at unacceptable levels for all though, especially African American and Puerto Rican males. For African Americans/PR's it went from really bad, to bad. Not much of an improvement. Still a serious problem. However in recent years we have began to see a new slow but steady rise in crime. Growth in the gap between rich and poor? Hip Hop encouragement? More youth incacerated? Yet another generation in poverty? I don't know. What I do know is poverty has a link along with increasing numbers of broken families.

Another statement to be made. Why is the citywide homicide rate in NYC still slowly going down? The African American and Puerto Rican populations are slowly dropping. Further backs my theory.

This is based on my observations. My background includes law enforcement and growing up in a poor community of color. It's a real shame but something must be done and nothing has been.

I also want to add in unfortunately some of the younger immigrants, mostly those born here. Mexican and Dominicans who's parents were not able to get them out of the high crime problematic neighborhoods are starting to inherit the same problems. That also may play a part in rising crime rates. Hopefully they will not fall into the trap of generational poverty many African Americans and Puerto Ricans have. This is why it is not wise to move into high poverty/crime neighborhoods, especially if you have children.

Last edited by Hustla718; 07-11-2007 at 12:39 AM..
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Old 07-11-2007, 12:02 AM
 
Location: New York
1,999 posts, read 4,553,161 times
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Default What about the future?

You are right the immigrants get a bad rap, they are hard working people and are exploited for cheap labor while minding their business for the most part. However the main concern lies in the future. Before this wave of immigrants in the 1970's/ early 1980's the 5 boroughs seemed to be emptying out, the whites wanted no part of what NY was becoming. There was much less traffic back then and crime was in your face. Now in some ways thing have improved, but what about the future.

Relying on immigrants may be a good short term economic solution but what about in 20 years. You are right that F.O.B. immigrants do not commit crimes like native born poor but what about the immigrant children born here? Are they going to do the jobs that there fathers did for the same wages. Who is going to do those jobs in the future? The children that become isolated from their parents culture and are immersed in the American thug culture. That 2nd generation of immigrants is the generation that brings the power crime wave. The cheap labor may help drive the economy now but in thirty years the children of the hundreds of thousands central Americans washing dishing for dirt cheap are not going to want to do those jobs anymore. Then you have those poor combined with the huge poor population we already have and then you are dealing with a massive welfare slum underclass.

Check out the crime stats on immigrants versus those born here from immigrant parents. Get ready for the crime wave.

Migration Information Source - Debunking the Myth of Immigrant Criminality: Imprisonment Among First- and Second-Generation Young Men
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Old 07-11-2007, 12:22 AM
 
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Yup. I pointed out at the end children of immigrants who were not able to escape high poverty areas now are inheriting the problems of the Puerto Ricans and African Americans in their communities. They are in the begining stage of generational poverty.

How do you enter the this cycle? Get addicted to drugs, Alcohol, get locked up, get knocked up young, join a gang. Immgrant parents work hard with a dream one day they can escape high crime/poverty areas. Some do, some don't. Now we are starting to see children whos parents were immgrants and unable to escape these neighborhoods. They are falling into the trap.
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Old 07-11-2007, 12:27 AM
 
201 posts, read 1,210,741 times
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Great post... I actually knew most of this stuff, because it is not indigenous to only NYC.
It's a truth more people trapped in bubbles need to hear/know.
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Old 07-11-2007, 12:38 AM
 
Location: New York
1,999 posts, read 4,553,161 times
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Default Many do make it out

Many do wise up, seize opportunities and make it out. Unfortunately many more fall in the trap and get sucked into the poison culture. That poison culture is not going to die anytime soon. Many more will get sucked in. Look at the Spanish radio station. Ten years ago it was salsa Y Meringue. Now it is all thug hip hop music, it almost seems like someone wants to bring these people down. On the bright side many of these immigrants are ambitious, proud and educated. Sometimes that is enough have the kids resist the pull of the slums.

Crime in NY is compartmentalized and centralized in certain areas, this is a very valid point. If you are sharp you can avoid trouble if you know your way around and have the means to avoid the trouble.
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Old 07-11-2007, 12:43 AM
 
433 posts, read 1,437,628 times
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Default Tell me this:

How do people justify the fact that 50% of all urban homicides are due to "Altercation"?

Here's a little story.

Tyrone bumps into Jose

Tyrone says "Sup"

Jose says "sup

Tyrone says "yo"

Jose says "yo"

Tyrone pulls knife

Jose pulls gun

Tyone shot in chest

Jose stabbed in arm

Tyrone dead

Jose spends 15 years draining NYS taxpayers money in Sing-Sing.




Everybody screams Economy/racism/Hip-hop, but when the above story accounts for 50% of all urban homicides, who's to blame.
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Old 07-11-2007, 12:44 AM
 
1,529 posts, read 2,274,275 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StPete2Charlotte View Post
Great post... I actually knew most of this stuff, because it is not indigenous to only NYC.
It's a truth more people trapped in bubbles need to hear/know.
Yes and it needs to be stated again and again. Too many fools who don't know any better.

Black on Black crime is an epidemeic. It's self genocide. We are killing ourselves off. It ain't getting no better.

Quote:
Originally Posted by samyn on the green View Post
Many do wise up, seize opportunities and make it out. Unfortunately many more fall in the trap and get sucked into the poison culture. That poison culture is not going to die anytime soon. Many more will get sucked in. Look at the Spanish radio station. Ten years ago it was salsa Y Meringue. Now it is all thug hip hop music, it almost seems like someone wants to bring these people down. On the bright side many of these immigrants are ambitious, proud and educated. Sometimes that is enough have the kids resist the pull of the slums.

Crime in NY is compartmentalized and centralized in certain areas, this is a very valid point. If you are sharp you can avoid trouble if you know your way around and have the means to avoid the trouble.
Another thing to factor in is incarceration rates. Look at how many youth have been arrested, spent time in prison. 2 out of 3 African American or Puerto Rican males will be arrested in NYC. It has become part of our culture. Reflected in our very own music even.

Quote:
Originally Posted by briarwood View Post
How do people justify the fact that 50% of all urban homicides are due to "Altercation"?

Here's a little story.

Tyrone bumps into Jose

Tyrone says "Sup"

Jose says "sup

Tyrone says "yo"

Jose says "yo"

Tyrone pulls knife

Jose pulls gun

Tyone shot in chest

Jose stabbed in arm

Tyrone dead

Jose spends 15 years draining NYS taxpayers money in Sing-Sing.




Everybody screams Economy/racism/Hip-hop, but when the above story accounts for 50% of all urban homicides, who's to blame.
A lot of that dispute related violence is encouraged by the Hip Hop culture. I love Rap, but lets be real it encourages violence. It also would of helped if both Tyrone and Jose were not arrested at a young and and exposed to real hardened criminals. Or that they were doing finacially well. Or that generation after generation a male figure was either killed or spent most of their life locked up. Or that their mothers did not have them when they were 15-16 years old, unable to support them and no father figure for mother or child.

Maybe with better opportunities they would hesitate pulling the trigger. Or would not want to put themselves in the situation at all. Or not be in an enviornment where that is accepted at all.

Even if Jose had rare circumstances in the hood, for example never got locked up, had both parents and was doing somewhat okay financially the ghetto would still drag him down. Maybe Jose carried the gun because he was tired of getting jumped by the guys on the corner and getting seriously injured when he was coming home from school. It just happened he bumped Tyron by accident, a low life, and killed him. Now Jose's life is over.

Last edited by Hustla718; 07-11-2007 at 12:57 AM..
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Old 07-11-2007, 12:56 AM
 
201 posts, read 1,210,741 times
Reputation: 83
Yeah... Imma be real.
When you have NO MONEY, and you have eaten one, maybe two meals in the past week, you will do ANYTHING to just get any amount of money.
A gun is your best friend and easyer to find than a job, or the money to actually buy one legit, and there is no father to discipline this stuff becomes second nature. This is for ANY RACE. The fact however is that most Whites don't face this situation. Some do, but most don't. ALOT of Blacks and Puerto Ricans (Actually the poorest minority in America) do.

The environments these kids are raised in are so hostile... I was raised in one, but my Mother is a great parent and raised me right despite circumstances, so I was pretty sheltered as a young child as to what was going on around me. I do community service once a week and nothing really shocks me anymore. Kids are becoming older and older. At my Middle School the big thing was having a switchblade, or being in a crew, and knocking out anyones teeth who even looked at you bad... Shoot, even the occasional stick up, but its seemed to get worse, and I look at my past and think that the kids now adays made us look soft.
Kids now adays are doing that stuff in like first grade! It's completely insane.
I was in a public housing development today doing community service and these 2 kids in 1st grade started fighting because one said the others Mom was a "Hoe B****"...

Wow, that speaks for itself.
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Old 07-11-2007, 01:04 AM
 
1,529 posts, read 2,274,275 times
Reputation: -80
I just created this post to dismiss some of the retardation I read.

Things like "the LES is safe, completely gentrified, nothing to worry about". Maybe for the White yuppy living it up in some new construction. However life is very different just a few blocks east in the housing projects along the East River. Where a young girl is hit by a stray bullet and drug dealing is the local economy.

Two worlds.

Of course sometimes these two worlds collide. The end result is usually horrific. "What are you gonna do, shoot me?!" Last words of a White female yuppy on the LES as she was robbed by a group of Black teens. In a million years she never would of thought. Probably recited in her head "this is the safest city, i'll be fine". True story.

Last edited by Hustla718; 07-11-2007 at 01:13 AM..
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Old 07-11-2007, 01:19 AM
 
201 posts, read 1,210,741 times
Reputation: 83
So this thread was for me?
I feel special *Smiley Face*
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