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Old 08-14-2007, 10:12 AM
 
3,570 posts, read 3,758,430 times
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I’m going to preface this, that if you are single, this sum might be a little more comfortable. This account is based on two people.

NYC is great. It has the “vibe”. It’s hip. It has a zillion cultural attractions, good public transport, diversity, great food. You can get almost anything at anytime.

So why are so many people complaining? Why do they want to move?

Life of an average NYer.

The median household income in NYC is $43,515. The US average is $44,684. (Source: Sperling's Best Places.) Most large metropolis' have a higher household income than NYC.

So the first myth, is that NYers make more money. That data simply does not support that. We do have a higher than average number of lawyers, bankers and doctors. But does the median household income substaintiate housing that costs 3x the national average?

So what is life like for those with average professions, and average incomes?

Your average day, you get up and you go to work.

You commute on the Subway, or perhaps a bus. Very few people can walk to work, even if NYC is one of the most walkable cities around. Why? Well most people of middle income don’t live anywhere near where they work.

It takes New Yorkers an average of 38.4 minutes to get to work. It is the longest commute in the nation. So that means on average, you lose 5 hours of your life, per week, commuting. (Although my commute has always been between 40-75 minutes which is closer to 10 hours.)

You crowd the crowded transport. You usually can’t sit. You are lucky to be able to get on the train or bus. You have to stand very close to people you don't know, some of which you would prefer not to touch, or smell. You may be in reach of a pole or a handle. Often times, one is not availabe. Who wants to touch one of those things anyway? Ewww!

If you move the wrong way, or get jostled by the transportation, you risk falling down. Worse, the person next to you had a bad night, and might start a fight with you over trivialities.

OK, you finally get to work, undazed at the normal commute, that is stressful in it's own right. This doesn't even discuss if there are delays and diversions requiring you to take a different route than normal.

Some say that working in NY is much harder. They demand much more of you in lesser jobs. (eg: the need for a college degree to become a file clerk, and the demands that are placed of you, once you are there.) Having never worked elsewhere, someone else will have to verify if that is true.

You end your day, and you go back to your public transport. It’s the same deal as the morning commute except people are less stressed in some ways, because they aren't in as big of a rush. On the other hand, people may be tired and cranky from work. So it's a coin toss.

For some reason, the commute home always takes longer. You may or may not go shopping after work for household items. If you do, invariably, you will go into a small store, that has too much stuff in it. The aisles are incredibly narrow. If you are like myself, I have to rush home to pick up my kid from daycare and then, pick up food items. The aisles are often filled with boxes of produce that has to be restocked. It's almost impossible to maneuver with a stroller. I personally get stressed in stores this claustrophobic. But you do, what you have to do.

If you are lucky, you may live in a neighborhood that carries “exotic items”, such as tofu, or pre-washed mesculin. Otherwise, you are faced with the choice of pretty bland fair, with produce, that is less than ripe, but priced as if it were.

The other alternative is to shop while you are still in “the city”, Manhattan. There, you will find a wide selection of everything your heart desires and then some (but not every market, only the special markets). It of course comes with a hefty price tag, $5.00 for tomatoes, and things like that. AND, you have to carry these groceries home. That’s not fun. Of course you can spring for a cab, but that might knock you out an additional $20. I have onced traversed from Trader Joe's filling a small "flight-bag" with wheels. I thought this would make transporting stuff home easier. It turned out worse than expected because I didn't anticipate so many steps and just how heavy it was. So normally, I carry 3-4 bags home from Trader Joe's. Carrying such groceries on a 40 minute ride up and down subway stairs becomes very fatiguing. People under-rate the hassle it is to transport "the good stuff" into an apartment in the outer boroughs.

You arrive at your apartment. Let’s hope you don’t have to walk up more than 4 flights. Maybe you are lucky and you live on the second floor, or an elevator building. Most apartments in NYC are small private houses with 1-2 apartments on each floor. For north of $1,000 a month, you will get an apartment that has electric that flickers when you run the blender, water that can sometimes run brown. You might have a bathtub large enough to sit, but definitely not large enough to lay down in. (Although some people ONLY have showers.) You may or may not have roaches or other vermin.

Your landlord didn’t paint when you moved in, and the apartment doesn’t look like it has been painted in at least a decade. The floors, although solid wood, haven't been refinished in three decades. The caulking in the bathroom hasn't been reapplied since the last tenant, and has a problem with mildew.

And why is it, most landlords in NYC can’t speak English well-enough to have a proper conversation with their tenants? On top of that, they often have a third grade education so common sense seems to go out the window? My landlord stores the snow shovel in the basement. The basement is only accessible through cellar doors on the sidewalk. So how do you get to the shovel when the cellar doors are filled with snow? Most New Yorkers have to put up with landlords that are this moronic.

You end up trying to have a reasonable conversation, about reasonable tenant demands, and it in turn falls into shouting matches. These landlords will inevitably charge you to replace equipment that needed replacing when you moved in. That’s why most people live out their last month’s security deposit. It isn't perfectly legal, but it sure beats the landlord trying to keep your security deposit for things that fall under routine maintenance.

Of course if you have more money than some middle class, or got lucky, you may live in an outer borough hip neighborhood or a decent well-maintained apartment that is not the size of a shoebox. I lived in one once, and I found the prices of the neighborhood amenities to be on par with Manhattan prices, but the quality was definitely that of Brooklyn.

At the time, I didn’t realize how much worse it could get. I’d rather have 2-3 choices of mediocre Chinese food than no Chinese restaurants worth eating in. And the majority of outer borough neighborhoods that don’t have that hipster panache, do not have more than 1-2 restaurants worth eating in PERIOD. That can get old quick. Let’s not even talk about visiting your local bookstore. Most neighborhoods don’t have bookstores. (Sad, but true.) Or art galleries, or any of the other things so “New York”.

So during the week, you want to take in something cultural. There are many things you can do for free. That’s great. Except, if you stay out past 9:30, you will have one f’n commute home. I went to a political fundraiser and took a train, to a shuttle bus, to a train, to a shuttle train to get home. It took me TWO hours to get home, and I left rather early, at 9pm. I can’t imagine taking the train at midnight when you are tired and want nothing more than to hurry up and get home. That’s at least a $20 cab fare or more, depending on where you live. So if you don't want to commute endlessly, be prepared to shell out cab fare, if... you can get a taxi. Sometimes it can take 20-30 minutes to hail a cab if you aren't in the perfect spot.

The weekend comes, and you are dog tired. It’s time to have fun. There are plenty of things to do for free and very cheap. OK, you can go to Central Park. You have to schlep yourself on the train. It takes an hour and half where it would normally take 45 minutes. Hey, it’s the weekend, the MTA does track work on the weekends. So you have to grin and bear it.

You schlep with you, a sandwich, some fruit and a big bottle of water for your lunch. You walk around all day, see lots of things. You get tired, so you hang out on a bench for a while. Then, you run out of water. So now you have to buy more. Cha-ching. $3.00 for an 10 ounce bottle of water in Central Park. I suppose you can leave the park and buy your water elsewhere. Well, you can, except it’s a pretty long walk to get to stores that sell water if you are already in Central Park. It could take easily 20 minutes or more.

It's rare thing that we go out "on the cheap" and spend LESS than $50, no matter how hard we try. Because when you are a good hour commute from your house, or if you are in the middle of an outdoor event, your choices become eating out, or leaving.

You get home, you are very tired. You don’t feel like cooking. You have been out all day. So you treat yourself to take out. $35 plus tip. That of course doesn’t include alcohol, which might be nice to have, if you are an average adult.

Sunday, you are at home and you realize, your house is a mess, and you need to do food shopping. Most importantly, you have to pay your bills which always leaves you depressed, because while you make a lot of money, you never seem to have much extra. Well, there goes your weekend. The chores takes up the greater part of your day. By the time you are done, there isn’t much time to get started doing something fun.

On occasion, you divert yourself from this routine. You do something different. Even something pretty low-key. Well if you go to the beach, that is $15 round trip, ($30 for two) and a two and half hour trek over subway, LIRR, and bus. When you get there, there is nothing but beach, and $4 beers, and $3 burgers that you can barely eat. Of course you can carry your food. But food is heavy and perishable so you don’t always want to do that.

The whole point, is that YES, NY has a ton of things to offer. But it sure puts a damper on your life if participating in those things require long commutes and schlepping tons of things on foot. Unless you are loaded, participating in a lot of these things is a big hassle. It's not as simple as some would think it would be.

For many, the responsibilities of working, commuting and maintaining the household takes up a good portion of their energy. And then when recreation either becomes expensive, or a big drain physically, it becomes harder and harder to justify how you are benefitting from living in NYC.

How is living in a not-so-chic neighborhood in the outboroughs living in NYC? Well geographically, yes, you are in NYC. But are you experiencing "NY"? Is living in the boonies the life portrayed on "Sex in the City", or "Seinfeld" or "Friends". Hardly.

What do you get? Well you pay a lot of money, even out in the boonies. The neighborhoods, some of them at least, aren't so pretty architecturally. They look very "urban" and "gritty", but don't have the good-side that most people would expect from real urban life. (Good restaraunts, good quality and variety of shopping, lots of entertainment.)

You also don't have the good side that comes from suburbia. Clean and quiet streets, lots of grass for your kids to play, parking for your vehicle.

And everything "fun" is about a one hour trip.

So is this lifestyle worth staying in NYC?
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Old 08-14-2007, 11:00 AM
 
9,680 posts, read 27,165,555 times
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Wow, what a story.

I used to live in Stuyvesant Town in the 70's-80's when it was affordable and walk to work at the Mobil Building on 42nd St.

Our neighborhood wasn't too bad and you could walk home from D'Ag's with a metal cart carrying your groceries.

We had a bargain membership at the 14th Street Y where a workout or a swim was only 3 blocks from our apt.

Met Life kept Stuy very nice for Manhattan. We could walk to 34th St or downtown to the WTC area.

If NYC was as bad as it was for you, I'd have moved to my present place in NC way before I did.

I feel sorry for you. That is no way to live.
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Old 08-14-2007, 12:26 PM
 
Location: Concrete jungle where dreams are made of.
8,900 posts, read 15,939,050 times
Reputation: 1819
I moved to western Queens from Long Island about 2 months ago. Now, I'm used to driving everywhere, which I really can't do or don't want to do (even though I have a car). Parking is so limited here that I don't bother with driving unless I'm going to Long Island. moved here because I'll be working in the city, by the way. Anyway, I thought taking the subway would be great--quicker than taking a car, cheaper, and less stressful than driving.

I have to take a bus to the subway from my apartment (I could walk to the subway, but that's a 15 minute walk. Hard to do when it's above 80 degrees), then I take the subway 2 stops, then transfer to an express to get into Manhattan. It takes me longer to get into Manhattan than I thought.

I really despise taking the bus, and I know I'm going to have to everyday once I start working this year since I can't afford the time to walk to the subway. I took the bus for the first time during morning rush hour yesterday, and it was brutal. Obviously the space is smaller than the subway, so it's twice as uncomfortable than being on a crowded subway. It's also harder to stay balanced on a bus, especially when there's less room to hang onto. Overall, it's a real pain taking the bus anywhere, and I need to to go to the subway.

Even when I take the subway to do an errand, it will take me 2 1/2 hours or so round trip by the time I get to Manhattan and back. I'm exhausted by the time I get home!! I never thought it would be this tiring. When I was on the island, it would take me about 30 minutes round trip. A lot less stressful taking the car, despite the traffic I experienced sometimes.

As much as I enjoy the city, I hate getting around here. For that reason (among some others), I'm looking forward to going to the island to buy a house in a few years. I can't imagine myself using public transportation everyday during rush hour for 30 years.
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Old 08-14-2007, 12:28 PM
 
Location: Minneapolis/Brooklyn
19 posts, read 139,789 times
Reputation: 20
if something makes you that absolutely unhappy, its definately anything but 'worth it'. i have lived in the same conditions and felt on top of the world, however, when you feel down, you REALLY feel down. Good luck!
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Old 08-14-2007, 12:33 PM
 
Location: Minneapolis/Brooklyn
19 posts, read 139,789 times
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i live on brooklyn ave and bergen st and the subway station is on nostrand and fultin. i think thats like 9 blocks! i am going to despise that walk during the winter months.
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Old 08-14-2007, 12:40 PM
 
Location: Minneapolis/Brooklyn
19 posts, read 139,789 times
Reputation: 20
fortunatelt my commute isnt too bad on the train. usually about 25 minutes cause i love on an express stop.
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Old 08-14-2007, 01:19 PM
 
7 posts, read 28,471 times
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Alot of this is true New York is not easy for the middle class or the working poor which are the samething in my book. Any kind of an apartment will cost you at least 1000 dollars a month in Queens usually closer to 1200 to rent. This is for a one bedroom by the way and not in a great neighborhood. If you want to live in manhattan a one bedroom will cost you at least 3x as much. So in this city you only start to become a human being at about 55k-60k a year. Meaning you are not struggling as much as people making under 40k but you really have to watch your budget. But it is true that New York does have great resturants and lost of interesting thing to do and see.
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Old 08-14-2007, 01:27 PM
 
3,357 posts, read 4,632,098 times
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I live in the Bronx and have a real short commute by car to my job in Westchester. But I’m always dreaming of getting rid of my car and getting a job commuting by public transportation. The car is so expensive to buy and insure, and something is always going wrong. At least someone else maintains the subway. Also, as a woman you always have to be skeptical when of what a mechanic tells you and on your toes to not get ripped off. About a year and a half ago I lost control of my car on the ice and went head first into the median at 55 mph. My daughter’s car seat became dislodged and I truly believe that if she had been in the car, she would not have survived.

On the weekends, I rarely move the car, unless I’m going to visit friends out of town or going to home depot. I love that where I live I can walk to mostly everything I need. A little while ago my son fell on his face on the sidewalk in front of our house and cut his lip-he was very upset and scared of the blood. I was very grateful to be able to walk around the corner to the doctor’s office and see someone in about 2 minutes. People forget that in the suburbs many people have to use their cars for everything—going to the grocery store, pharmacy, dry cleaning, restaurants…That kind of life also has its disadvantages.
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Old 08-14-2007, 01:40 PM
 
Location: Indian Land, SC
319 posts, read 1,250,595 times
Reputation: 76
i hear you...i've moved further and further into the boonies so i can have a larger apt...notice i said "larger" not "large". it's still not a true 2br.

that's why i'm moving in 2 wks i've had it - yes you make more money but it's a huge tradeoff and a ripoff.

good luck to you...
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Old 08-14-2007, 01:42 PM
 
Location: Indian Land, SC
319 posts, read 1,250,595 times
Reputation: 76
out of curiosity what neighborhood are you in at the moment?
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