Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
@ goofy, you'll always have a group of followers that will follow that tough and hard rap that is still very much alive if you're into that stuff but even way back when in the 90s when hiphop was at its peak... what made it so great wasn't so much that it was tough and hard but that there was real meaning to what was being said... Dudes like Pete Rock and groups like a tribe called quest or naughty by nature would be rare nowadays but back then they were just a few of the many artists out there just being real... and it seems like thats been lost nowadays... So much music and its not just hiphop but music in general has become so mainstream and pointless where its catchy for a few months and then dies out after that... you still got a good number of artists still doing it right but unfortunately the masses don't support that movement the way they used to and so it seems as if they're no longer there but they really are... just gotta look for it...
I remember this one cut off of a tribe record where q-tip had just flipped out and showed how gangsta he really could be. today it would be cool but at the time it seemed disturbing, unsettling, like a negative reaction to the way the neighborhood was chaning. can't remember the song though, you may know what I was talking about, think it might have been in reference to a rape or something can't tell. but anyway it is unfortunate that the mainstream has squashed that entire movement. music used to make people think about life, ask questions, not just accept anything and everything that "the man" was trying to force feed you, want to be a better individual, seek God, etc. etc.
but you're right, even r&b is poisoined. true r&b, if you can even find it on the radio these days with all of these wanna be pop sell outs, seems to pale in comparison to the 90s and the 80s. irony of it; back in the 90s people who grew up on the 80s stuff thought that all hell had broke loose, and likewise (for the 70s people listening to 80s).
I don't know about that... I think the 90s produced some of the greatest artists of all time... Real artists... To me that is an era that will never be duplicated... (That as opposed to the 80s which ironically was very similar to today in the sense that the majority of the music during that time didn't require talent but electronic, futuristic, alien-like sounds that brought brief popularity and then left the artists in obscurity)... But like I said there is plenty of real rap, hiphop, r&B, rock music out there... the only difference nowadays... it isn't as popular as it used to be... There is hope for the future people... No need to be pessimistic... just have to search harder to find the hidden gems...
I don't know about that... I think the 90s produced some of the greatest artists of all time... Real artists... To me that is an era that will never be duplicated... (That as opposed to the 80s which ironically was very similar to today in the sense that the majority of the music during that time didn't require talent but electronic, futuristic, alien-like sounds that brought brief popularity and then left the artists in obscurity)... But like I said there is plenty of real rap, hiphop, r&B, rock music out there... the only difference nowadays... it isn't as popular as it used to be... There is hope for the future people... No need to be pessimistic... just have to search harder to find the hidden gems...
The 80s were not that complex. There were a lot of cool things going on with music in the 80s, but synthesizers were still new. I do agree that the 80s had a lot of one hit artists, even in hip-hop, but to say that the 80s was lame because it is similar to today in that respect disrespects the energy that was part of the music, and in many ways, the cultural scene at that time. I was too young to fully enjoy it, but you can't compare what Michael Jackson did to say Chris Brown, or Usher, they copy the moves but they do not have a tenth of the impact that MJ did.
Electronic music was still in its infancy at that time, and people were infatuated with synthesizers; truth be told most artists did not know how to use them. No one is suggesting that the 90s sucked because most of the really good 90s artists ran with concepts that were pioneered in the 80s, like those laid down by artists like Rakim. It is difficult to believe that there was a time that artists did not "flow"; even Soulja Boy can flow if he wants to. The 80s were minimal, because people did not understand the technology, and it did not take that much for people in the 80s. Those were simpler times, but that is not to suggest that it was not a good time in music. Sometimes the best concepts are simple; even MJ was better in the 80s than he was in the 90s, when he took on New Jack Swing and concepts that were arguably more complex than what he did in the disco and urban contemporary eras of the 70s and the 80s.
You have to understand, lyrically, if there were a Tupac or a Biggie in the 80s someone's head would have exploded, someone else would have killed themselves. At the same time, some of the artists, Chubb Rock, Big Daddy Kane, EPMD, were complex for that era.
Another thing about the 90s is the reality movement. People wanted the authenticity of pain, depression, disenfranchisement, poverty. The 80s were about escapism. But if you look at culture in general, you see that escapism and authenticity go around every other decade. The last decade was more of about escapism, but I think another authenticity movement is around the corner.
I don't know about that... I think the 90s produced some of the greatest artists of all time... Real artists... To me that is an era that will never be duplicated... (That as opposed to the 80s which ironically was very similar to today in the sense that the majority of the music during that time didn't require talent but electronic, futuristic, alien-like sounds that brought brief popularity and then left the artists in obscurity)... But like I said there is plenty of real rap, hiphop, r&B, rock music out there... the only difference nowadays... it isn't as popular as it used to be... There is hope for the future people... No need to be pessimistic... just have to search harder to find the hidden gems...
Sorry Anon with all due respect i have to disagree with the part you said about the 80s hip hop didn't require talent but electronic, futuristic, alien-like sounds that brought brief popularity and then left the artists in obscurity.....
Hip Hop in the 80s was a time of inovation. Sampling came into play in the 80s, well before the 90s came around. The 80s is divided into two distinct eras. The first being the b-boy era, when break dancing was popular. Then after that scene died down, hip hop entered its Golden era. And anything that happened in the 90s was a run off from that era. The late 80s era produced some of the best artist/albums of all times.....Rakim, public enemy, BDP, big daddy kane, etc These artist shaped in the 80s what rappers in the 90s were doing.
even on the west coast, Dr. dre and ice cube, all those cats form nwa got their start in the 80s. Straight outta compton is considered a west coast classic and completely and utterly influenced what people were doing in cali in the 90s.
Im not saying the 80s was better. but theres no way people can dismiss the 80s so easily or compare it to todays garbage, there simply no comparison. Some of the most classic albums ever came out in the 80s.
1988 is to many, considered the best year in Hip Hop, just look at the classics that came out that year alone. Peace
Sorry Anon with all due respect i have to disagree with the part you said about the 80s hip hop didn't require talent but electronic, futuristic, alien-like sounds that brought brief popularity and then left the artists in obscurity.....
Hip Hop in the 80s was a time of inovation. Sampling came into play in the 80s, well before the 90s came around. The 80s is divided into two distinct eras. The first being the b-boy era, when break dancing was popular. Then after that scene died down, hip hop entered its Golden era. And anything that happened in the 90s was a run off from that era. The late 80s era produced some of the best artist/albums of all times.....Rakim, public enemy, BDP, big daddy kane, etc These artist shaped in the 80s what rappers in the 90s were doing.
even on the west coast, Dr. dre and ice cube, all those cats form nwa got their start in the 80s. Straight outta compton is considered a west coast classic and completely and utterly influenced what people were doing in cali in the 90s.
Im not saying the 80s was better. but theres no way people can dismiss the 80s so easily or compare it to todays garbage, there simply no comparison. Some of the most classic albums ever came out in the 80s.
1988 is to many, considered the best year in Hip Hop, just look at the classics that came out that year alone. Peace
88 is as good as it gets in my book. But anon is not the first and definitely would not be the last that has said that 90s is better. Some of it is due to age; could be someone was just as young in the 80s as I was in the 70s, some of it could also be the dillusion that Biggie and Tupac were the best artists ever. Even at its height, 90s had nothing on 1988.
You also have to look at what DJs actually play when they go "way back". Most times it is stuff from 88 or even before. Those are good songs, hands down, that even your mother can listen to. Most of the 90s stuff was gritty, and only appealed to true hip-hop heads.
Again, the 80s was just a simpler time. Some of the complexity that came in with the drum machines in the 90s, was there in the 80s, just with sampling.
Has nothing to do with age my man... And i was not referring to hip hop of the 80s that really blew up in the late 80s early 90s... I was referring to music overall during that period was very electronic and basically was the decade of the one-hit wonders... you have vh1 dedicate many segments on this if you care to disagree... 90s as a whole produced a far higher quality of music. It produced music that required some actual real talent whether it was lyrical fire, R&B/soul you could name hundreds of artists during that time period that just sang ballads and were #1 hits... Any objective person can tell you that the artists that came out of the 90s were of a much higher caliber than the 80s... Notice I didn't say 70s or 60s though I personally feel that is debatable while I understand that is a matter of preference... but objectively speaking I don't know how anyone can say songs like "whip it" by Devo compare to songs like "I will always love you" by whitney houston or "Hero" by Mariah Carey or any number of other songs... And this was my point... I really think it is seriously debatable that the difficult time period that was the 90s produced some of the greatest artists to ever come out...
Has nothing to do with age my man... And i was not referring to hip hop of the 80s that really blew up in the late 80s early 90s... I was referring to music overall during that period was very electronic and basically was the decade of the one-hit wonders... you have vh1 dedicate many segments on this if you care to disagree... 90s as a whole produced a far higher quality of music. It produced music that required some actual real talent whether it was lyrical fire, R&B/soul you could name hundreds of artists during that time period that just sang ballads and were #1 hits... Any objective person can tell you that the artists that came out of the 90s were of a much higher caliber than the 80s... Notice I didn't say 70s or 60s though I personally feel that is debatable while I understand that is a matter of preference... but objectively speaking I don't know how anyone can say songs like "whip it" by Devo compare to songs like "I will always love you" by whitney houston or "Hero" by Mariah Carey or any number of other songs... And this was my point... I really think it is seriously debatable that the difficult time period that was the 90s produced some of the greatest artists to ever come out...
It really comes down to personal preference. I am actually from the town that Devo is from, Akron, so I may have a bias there . But I do get your point. I think that the 90s overall was more complex, as by that time everything had already been tried. Sampling was pretty much dead by then, and you had to up your game if you were going to sample. Synthesizers and Drum Machines you had to up your game too.
I think the reason that music seems dumbed down over the last ten years is because people were burnt out of the complexity of 90s music. I wouldn't necessarily suggest that means that the music itself got worse, but they needed something basic. If you look back 70s disco and Philadelphia sound was extremely rich and complex in comparison to the soul music of the 60s, and then the 80s was rather simple in part because musicians had new instruments to master, but also because of the audiences. While classic rock wasn't necessarily complex, some of the art stuff that Phil Collins or say The Who sort of was, so people wanted something simple. The eighties saw the excesses in rock and roll that the last decade saw in hip-hop.
If you're going for the argument that things were more complex and artists had to step their game up to appease jaded audiences, I get your point, but I don't think that makes 90s artists better. Producers may not have been using technology to mask the frailty of unseasoned artists like they are today, and definitely like they did during the Auto Tune period, and we may not see another Whitney Houston or Mariah Carey vocally for some time now, but I don't think that means that we never will again either.
Artists are victims of the times that they are in, and what audiences could handle. When Whitney Houston and Mariah Carey come out, every woman and her grandmother was a seasoned vocalist, so they had to come out on top. Sort of how Beyonce does with her dancing today, though I think Beyonce is far from being a fraction of the vocalist that Whitney and Mariah are. Some people can compete and some can't; I wish we had the artists of the 90s, but I know that audiences are rather dumbed down and are simply not looking for those type of artists today. I am hopeful that they will in the future.
I still think the next decade is going to be rather experimental, which means a lot of people are going to fail, and to be honest, we may not see any real talent in hip-hop for yet another decade. But artists will try to push the envelope artistically, so for that much alone it may end up being better than the 00s were.
I hear you... But my original point was exactly that... That I felt that people were being overly harsh about this time period and there is plenty of hope for hip hop/rap nowadays as well as in the future...
Sure, right now whats popular isn't really talent driven but that doesn't mean that talent isn't all around... Like I said depending on what you want theres a plethora of every kind of type of hiphop that you saw in the 90s...
You want that tough real rap that gives you a 90s gritty vibe... Check out Joell Ortiz, French Montana, J Millz, Methodman/Redman, Rick Ross, The Game, Cassidy I'd even throw Cole in there with some of his music but he could be a part of two categories (I don't sleep on this guy even though I feel his old stuff was better...)
You want lyrical fire... you still have plenty of old school artists still in the game and you got new guys coming up... just to name a few that are out there... (Mos Def, Common, Kanye, Lupe, Cole, Jay Electronica, Cudi, Eminem, Theophilus London etc.)
You want beats driven but still talented... again some of these guys can fall into both categories but nonetheless (Theophilus, Cudi, Fab, Jay, Big Sean, Wayne (even though i'm not crazy about him, cant knock his talent) etc.)
I'm tired of hearing people say the same thing that hip hop is dead... music is dead... and the same old routine... It's not dead, the problem is people nowadays... And again thats a matter of personal preference so I'm no one to judge but right now it just feels like what's popular nowadays for the masses would have been laughed at 10-15 years ago...
I hear you... But my original point was exactly that... That I felt that people were being overly harsh about this time period and there is plenty of hope for hip hop/rap nowadays as well as in the future...
Sure, right now whats popular isn't really talent driven but that doesn't mean that talent isn't all around... Like I said depending on what you want theres a plethora of every kind of type of hiphop that you saw in the 90s...
You want that tough real rap that gives you a 90s gritty vibe... Check out Joell Ortiz, French Montana, J Millz, Methodman/Redman, Rick Ross, The Game, Cassidy I'd even throw Cole in there with some of his music but he could be a part of two categories (I don't sleep on this guy even though I feel his old stuff was better...)
You want lyrical fire... you still have plenty of old school artists still in the game and you got new guys coming up... just to name a few that are out there... (Mos Def, Common, Kanye, Lupe, Cole, Jay Electronica, Cudi, Eminem, Theophilus London etc.)
You want beats driven but still talented... again some of these guys can fall into both categories but nonetheless (Theophilus, Cudi, Fab, Jay, Big Sean, Wayne (even though i'm not crazy about him, cant knock his talent) etc.)
I'm tired of hearing people say the same thing that hip hop is dead... music is dead... and the same old routine... It's not dead, the problem is people nowadays... And again thats a matter of personal preference so I'm no one to judge but right now it just feels like what's popular nowadays for the masses would have been laughed at 10-15 years ago...
Only Theophilus London stuff I've heard is that concept late 80s early 90s r&b stuff they push on YouTube, which I actually like but I'll have to check out some of his mixtapes. But you are true there is someone out there for everyone, you just have to be willing to look. You really think Cole is going soft for the mainstream? He doesn't even have an album out yet.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
. But I do get your point. I think that the 90s overall was more complex, as by that time everything had already been tried. Sampling was pretty much dead by then, and you had to up your game if you were going to sample. Synthesizers and Drum Machines you had to up your game too.
