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I agree with that in general BMW, and it was well written at that. Much of it I believe has to do with NYC's (well earned I might add) reputation, although that reputation may not be valid anymore. This thread is really just a rant, and everyone is piling on.
Alot of the recent threads and interactions as of late reminds me of when I first started posting a few years ago. We had intense conversations, which made the forum interesting and a variety of personalities and perspectives were expressed. I think we have a good mix of posters and opinions/perspectives, and it is making city-data more interesting again.
Sometimes reading these treads I also can't figure out if the person asking about safety is white or not. But ultimatlely it doesn't matter because an unsafe neighborhood is unsafe for EVERYBODY.
A high crime area is no safer for black people or Puerto Ricans living there than it is for white people. In fact its probably LESS safe because street crimes where whites are victims get far more media and police attention that similar crimes against people of color. I started a thread a few months ago //www.city-data.com/forum/new-y...u-dont-do.html and I think it shows that. It was about four youngsters, three new to the city, who got badly ripped off and beaten up after moving into a bad section of Bed-Stuy. This probably happens less to newcomers now with the decades-long general decrease in crime rate, but still happens rather routinely to natives and one rarely hears or reads about it.
(Just a little bit off topic, but it's nice to note a pleasant exception: the arrest of the thugs who killed a HS basketball star in the Grant House PJ's near Columbia U the other day.)
I also still think that there are lot of people who confuse "safety" with "comfort" They are two very different things. I, as a black man, might feel little to no concern about street crime, burglaries, etc, in certain neighborhoods. But I wouldn't feel comfortable or choose to live in them because I might feel out of place, isolated, stand out like the fly in the buttermilk, not speak the language, wonder where I could get a haircut, etc etc etc. But a white woman moving here from the Midwest might conflate comfort and safety. She might not feel "comfortable" on, say, Convent Ave in Harlem or Ft. Washington Ave near Columbia Presbyterian because they're not a lot of white people living there. But relatively speaking, she'd still be "safe" They are two different things and sometimes I think people do ask "Is it safe?" when they really mean "Is it black?" like the two things are absoultely mutually exclusive. They're not. As Harlem Resident said above, the normal middle-class black folk are pretty much invisible, to a lot of native New Yorkers I'm afraid as well as to newcomers.
Available...you are simply trying to allege that what happened yesterday, last week, last year, or 50+ years ago has no bearing on today...and every day everyone starts fresh on equal footing, brand new. Really?
The past does matter, because it directly impacts today, and alleging otherwise is simply trying to white-wash the truth. There is a big difference between a race baiter and someone who reveals the truth..and those who don't like to hear the truth try to label them as this-or-that...but it doesn't change reality.
Blacks may not be getting lynched today, and are free, but while blacks were 3/5 of a person for 300+ years, whites were busy amassing wealth off their backs, establishing institutions which only they could benefit, businesses, networks, and bequeathing all that wealth/education/advantage to subsequent generations...none of which blacks could do.
And because of this past, we have a greatly advantaged population on one side, telling everyone else "we are all equal", and "the past doesn't matter"..and "it's up to you, nobody is holding you back". While the other side is starting off 300 years behind everyone else...except they have nobody to enslave and get rich off of, and the advantaged group already has all the power/control.
That is truth..not race baiting. Welcome to the USA 2011. And life ain't fair, I know this, and there are no promises or guarantees. But at the very least we should speak honestly about this, and not rewrite history or allege everyone is equal and the past never mattered.
The only thing that this post sums up is the fact that you are a proponent of affirmative action. Which I am already aware of. And that's fine, feel how you may. But this isn't the thread for it. That's got nothing to do with anything. However you are the one who started down that path. Which doesn't surprise me in the least.
I honestly don't see that many posts on here where people identify themselves as white and ask specifically whether it's safe to move into a black neighborhood.If you read this forum daily,as I do,you will realize that most of these types of inquiries come from people who don't reveal their race and although they may inquire about "Harlem" or "Bed Stuy" or Bushwick",etc they don't use terms like "black neighborhood",etc.They inquire about the safety of neighborhoods that happen to be black.I know what the Op here says does happen sometimes but I don't think it happens that much.And often it's a troll.
Sometimes it's easy to assume that they must be white people and they must be transplants and they must be asking about a neighborhood because they are afraid to live with black people but that is often just us reading into what they actually say.
Here is a very recent example of one of these types of threads where even I assumed at the beginning that the poster was a white transplant moving into The Bronx.It's interesting because as you get further into the thread the OP reveals herself as a minority native NY'er who is mostly scared because she grew up in Queens and is terrified of The Bronx and also because she thinks that as a young minority she might be more vulnerable to being a crime victim.At one point I began to get exasperated with this poster and wondered whether he/she was a troll.I was pretty convinced it was,as you say,a white transplant.At this point I am thinking the poster was sincere and I still don't know what her race is.A very interesting lesson for me.
Sorry,although you very occasionally do see posts/threads where the posters use the terms black/white, more often it is our imaginations that inject the references to race because we make assumptions.
yea that was my thread....let me give some more details about myself because i was a little bit vague in my thread:
-I'm a MALE
-30 years old
-Black/Latino (people usually think I'm arab, puerto rican, or west indian)
-I was born and raised in Astoria, Queens
From the little time I've spent on this forum I've noticed some of you are very high strung and get aggitated over the simplest questions. And yes, some of us may make generalizations about certain areas or whatever but as long as we're not being blatantly disrespectful I don't see what the big deal is. Like if someone asked me about crime in Astoria or the surrounding areas I'm not going to get all upset about it...why would I?
Available the fact that all you can get out of the post is calling me pro-affirmative action indicates you simply disregard truth and want to label me something..if not race-baiter, then pro-affirmative action, if not that then maybe socialist, and if not that maybe some other term.
Ignoring the truth, and believing we live in a meritocracy fairy land where the past never matters may help you sleep at night...and makes it easier to blame individuals for "their own problems" but it is not reality. Labeling me 1 of 1,000 things won't change that either.
Well, I think it is a legitimate question to ask if a place is safe if you are a certain ethnicity. People would not be raising hell if a Black person asked if some redneck hellhole was safe for them to live in. It is a fact that many, let's not kid ourselves, nearly all majority Black neighborhoods are crime ridden and chaotic. There is already enough Black and Black crime, it is always natural to assume that if you are in a minority that appears to be physically weaker, and monetarily wealthier i.e. White People, you can easily become a target. Of course, that's not to say that the MAJORITY of Blacks living in that area are targetting you, but it only takes ONE criminal to bash your head in and take your wallet. Just like it only takes ONE redneck to call you the N Word and run you down with their truck.
So sorry you are too sensitive. But it's only common sense. I'm tired of everyone having to be politically sensitive all the damn time even at the expense of personal safety or common sense.
Available the fact that all you can get out of the post is calling me pro-affirmative action indicates you simply disregard truth and want to label me something..if not race-baiter, then pro-affirmative action, if not that then maybe socialist, and if not that maybe some other term.
Ignoring the truth, and believing we live in a meritocracy fairy land where the past never matters may help you sleep at night...and makes it easier to blame individuals for "their own problems" but it is not reality. Labeling me 1 of 1,000 things won't change that either.
My dude, you are going off on tangets that are completely unnecessary. I have been and will be happy to go back and forth with you on the topic of affirmative action. But there was no need for it here. And if you think that that post in question is anything more than your justification for affirmative action, then you grossly overestimate your own writing skills.
Funny incident (maybe not so "funny"): I am a melanin deficient person (basically, I'm pink) living in a melanin-rich neighborhood. One day, I walked out of my house, and an old guy of maybe 65 years old, black, and a normal-looking retiree was very close to me on the corner, and he was mumbling something. I wasn't paying much attention to him at first, but he kept it up for some time as we waited for traffic and started to cross the street. Eventually I tuned in and heard him saying, "Well goooolly, Srgnt. Carter..." over and over. "Well goo-oolly, Srgnt. Carter.... Well gooo-oooly, Srgnt. Carter..." And i realized he was doing it for my benefit. I happen to be just old enough to know the reference: He was calling me Gomer Pile - the epitome of a white idiot (which perhaps I am, but still...) It was an odd experience, and really off-putting. I mean I look more like Richie Cunningham than Gomer Pile, for god's sake, but I got the point. It was an echo of a former era in this neighborhood, as my neighbors have told me, when white people really were not welcome, and would have faced all kinds of intimidation if they came. There was a time and there still are places where white people, the symbols of racial injustice - more so than Asians, or any other group - were not (are not) welcome. It's changing, thanks to a lot of factors, but it's still real. It's a real conflict that is present for a lot of people - and certainly seemed to be for this old-timer.
I have a lot of sympathy for the negative effects that gentrification can have on a neighborhood. Displacement is a real issue and there should be mechanisms to decrease the effects. But it is conflict that some people confront with intimidation. That's what people are asking about when they ask if a "white person will feel safe". Is it inappropriate to ask? Maybe; I don't know. I think if one is going to ask a racially charged question, it's important to be careful about it - that's for sure. But I think it's valid to wonder how often you're gonna be called "Gomer Pile", or worse. No matter how apt it may have been in my case, it didn't feel good.
like I said before if you going to fear for your safety the don't move there!
I've lived in brownsville/ east ny and I honestly never had any problems...people keep saying crime ridden slum but I've never seen or heard people being shot or murdered.
Now long island is mostly white/Irish and not particularly known for high crime rate but do you think those Irish would like my black ass in their neighborhoods...Hell No! So why would I want to live there knowing that I would be a target! This is one thing I'm talking about....if you know what kinda **** you'll have to put up with don't move there...same for the people who keep posting the "is it safe" posts....don't move here if your so nervous or scared.
Same goes with black areas, many of them don't want whites there. Obviously not every [or even the majority] of blacks don't mind or care, but there are some that will make if very obvious that you're not welcolmed in their hoods.
Same goes the other way around, If a black person came and asked if it is safe to move to Bensonhurst or Howard Beach, I would tell them no, given the neighborhoods history. If there were any low income high crime areas in this city that were mostly white, I also wouldn't suggest blacks to move/live over there.
Also, there has been attacks by blacks against whites in this city in the past, many of which the media tries to hide as much as possible.
Funny incident (maybe not so "funny"): I am a melanin deficient person (basically, I'm pink) living in a melanin-rich neighborhood. One day, I walked out of my house, and an old guy of maybe 65 years old, black, and a normal-looking retiree was very close to me on the corner, and he was mumbling something. I wasn't paying much attention to him at first, but he kept it up for some time as we waited for traffic and started to cross the street. Eventually I tuned in and heard him saying, "Well goooolly, Srgnt. Carter..." over and over. "Well goo-oolly, Srgnt. Carter.... Well gooo-oooly, Srgnt. Carter..." And i realized he was doing it for my benefit. I happen to be just old enough to know the reference: He was calling me Gomer Pile - the epitome of a white idiot (which perhaps I am, but still...) It was an odd experience, and really off-putting. I mean I look more like Richie Cunningham than Gomer Pile, for god's sake, but I got the point. It was an echo of a former era in this neighborhood, as my neighbors have told me, when white people really were not welcome, and would have faced all kinds of intimidation if they came. There was a time and there still are places where white people, the symbols of racial injustice - more so than Asians, or any other group - were not (are not) welcome. It's changing, thanks to a lot of factors, but it's still real. It's a real conflict that is present for a lot of people - and certainly seemed to be for this old-timer.
I have a lot of sympathy for the negative effects that gentrification can have on a neighborhood. Displacement is a real issue and there should be mechanisms to decrease the effects. But it is conflict that some people confront with intimidation. That's what people are asking about when they ask if a "white person will feel safe". Is it inappropriate to ask? Maybe; I don't know. I think if one is going to ask a racially charged question, it's important to be careful about it - that's for sure. But I think it's valid to wonder how often you're gonna be called "Gomer Pile", or worse. No matter how apt it may have been in my case, it didn't feel good.
Let me ask you something, you pink sunnavabitch. Why did you and your father personally go out and lynch people who aren't pink?
I'll be waiting...
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