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Old 09-25-2007, 04:44 PM
 
Location: Bronx, NY
1,526 posts, read 5,596,052 times
Reputation: 301

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YAWN.....

Same old same old here. You are young, and you sound it. You seem to think everyone got theirs with no sacrifice, no hard work, no paying dues. In my opinion, this is extremely solipsistic thinking.

I won't repeat myself anymore. It's futile, and who cares? You do your thing, and others will do theirs.

In any case, you're moving out...best of luck to you.

PS, what happened to that windfall your pops had?

 
Old 09-26-2007, 01:16 AM
 
1,529 posts, read 2,787,563 times
Reputation: -80
Quote:
Originally Posted by roseba View Post
You don't understand my hangup?

I'm trying to make a point.


Living in the outer boroughs, especially some areas has the expense of living in a world class city, without any of the benefits.

I really don't understand what is so hard to understand about such a concept.

Who wants to pay for caviar if they are only getting tuna fish?

If I'm gonna get tuna fish, I want to pay $0.99 cents a can, not prices for 3 rate caviar.

And I'm perfectly content to live in tunafish-ville if I wasn't paying for caviar. Because even 3rd rate caviar sucks up all your income.

What's so hard to understand about this concept?

What is so hard to understand that speaking about it, and being clear about the reality that "modest middle income" people face, is part of the solution.

All these people with the attitude "It is, what it is" does not help the situation. Helping the situation is EDUCATING people about the reality, and then taking action by writing to your senators, educating your colleagues, strangers and friends.

I spoke personally about this kind of stuff to Charlie Rangel when I was at an event with him.

And my next goal is to leave, where I can get more value for my dollar and still have my cake and eat it too.
Roseba, God bless you becuase unlike most people on this message board, you actually have common sense. You have to remember this board attracts yuppies and pro urban individuals. New York City is their mecca and they would pay 5k a month to live in ****holes like the South Bronx... so long as they live in city limits you know...

Sometimes the arguements are meaningless. You will be argueing with people who want to defend their neighborhood becuase you called it a bad name or pointed out the negatives. They have to justify their rip off remember. I never understood people like this. Insecure I guess. You will be argueing with people who have real estate interest in the area and will hype and blindly boost an area. Then there are just wierdos of fools who just don't get it.

I'm glad you are intellegent enough to see through the hype and bull****. Thank God most Americans have this mindset. Unfortunately, some of the people have their heads up their ass. They need to take off their rosey colored glasses and witness the reality.
 
Old 09-26-2007, 03:09 AM
 
Location: Bronx, NY
1,526 posts, read 5,596,052 times
Reputation: 301
Poor poor girl--she can't have her way without paying the price and guess what? She's moving out. The reason she's so bitter about it is because she was born here and doesn't really want to move--but just can't stand the fact that she can't afford Manhattan (the hype capital of the world, right Hustla?) She's the one who's bought the hype hook, line and sinker. No other borough is worth it, you know--they're all hick towns with no culture, no amenities, no nothing. Imagine--she has to take the subway and everything!

I don't think she's living in the ghetto either, Hustla. She's young, and she seems to think she should go straight to the top of the heap. Why? Well, because she's Roseba, and she deserves it!

Here's an idea, Hustla--hows about you and all the other "Americans" with your "mindset" take up a little collection for this poor waif so that she can live rent free in the Manhattan area of her choice? You're so fond of her, after all--can't you give the girl a hand?

Here's to champagne wishes and caviar dreams.
 
Old 09-26-2007, 08:35 AM
 
Location: Mott Haven
2,978 posts, read 3,990,697 times
Reputation: 209
I am glad you said it Hustla..because those of us who love living in this city do what it takes, including paying $5,000 a month...and probably that amount or close to it in the South Bronx soon enough. Many people cannot understand that concept...and that's okay...there is a huge world out there that offers something for everyone. So why criticize those that choose to pay up the nose to live where they want? Make room, because there are 10 people behind you looking to take your spot and pay more without complaining.

It is unfortunate that you cannot live where you want at the price you set or think is fair. Welcome to the real world! I would rather be paying $200 a month and living in the West Village....but I don't and life goes on...I pay $1,250 and live in Mott Haven because it is worth it to me and all the others that are moving here or staying here. If I did not think it was worth it, I too would be moving somewhere that is better. Nobody owes you anything, including any sort of lifestyle..you have to earn that..often times the hard way.

If you are looking for sympathy because you want your cake and eat it too, well you will likely not find it from anyone on this board. It is basic economics....demand versus supply...if everyone wants that 1 can of tuna...you can bet that it is not gonna be .99 cents anymore. Period....and that is how value is assessed..the only way for that matter. Whether you choose to recognize it or not, agree with it or not, that is the way the world, for better or worse, functions. 15 years ago, nobody wanted the 2/3 family homes they were putting up in the South Bronx..and as a result they were selling for $90,000 in many cases, with further subsidies from the city and virtually no money down...nobody wanted that tuna.

Now they are putting up new 2/3 family homes in the South Bronx that are selling for $600,000, because the demand is there...simple. If you do not see the value, do not buy. If you do not see the point of living in this city, there is a world out there waiting for you. Coming here complaining about not getting what you want, or not getting a chance, or getting cheated out of something that you feel you deserve, is a waste of time on this board as well as in the real world. Make your own opportunities, sacrifice, and do what it takes. If it is not worth it to you to live here...then it is clear you should not be here. Simple.
 
Old 09-26-2007, 08:35 AM
 
Location: Arlington, VA
89 posts, read 227,843 times
Reputation: 32
Quote:
Originally Posted by Elvira Black View Post
Poor poor girl--she can't have her way without paying the price and guess what? She's moving out. The reason she's so bitter about it is because she was born here and doesn't really want to move--but just can't stand the fact that she can't afford Manhattan (the hype capital of the world, right Hustla?) She's the one who's bought the hype hook, line and sinker. No other borough is worth it, you know--they're all hick towns with no culture, no amenities, no nothing. Imagine--she has to take the subway and everything!

I don't think she's living in the ghetto either, Hustla. She's young, and she seems to think she should go straight to the top of the heap. Why? Well, because she's Roseba, and she deserves it!

Here's an idea, Hustla--hows about you and all the other "Americans" with your "mindset" take up a little collection for this poor waif so that she can live rent free in the Manhattan area of her choice? You're so fond of her, after all--can't you give the girl a hand?

Here's to champagne wishes and caviar dreams.
What's with all the hate? I find this post to be incredibly mean-spirited and I think it's uncalled for. Did Roseba personally attack or insult you in some way??

I personally happen to agree with just about everything Roseba stated in this thread. With some notable exceptions, living in an outer borough often entails dealing with the headaches of living in NYC (dirt, noise, high income tax, overpriced apartments, exorbitant cost of living) without amenities such as easy access to culture, shopping, and world-class restaurants. True, I can head into the city and visit the Met anytime I want, though getting from southern Brooklyn to the UES would probably take at least 90 minutes, if not more, considering how badly trains run on weekends. Not exactly convenient, in my opinion. I do agree that Manhattan is overhyped in many ways, but you can't beat it convenience-wise.

Earlier in the thread - or perhaps even in a different thread - Roseba referred to the outer boroughs as some sort of weird city/suburb hybrid. I have to say that I think that the description is dead-on for the most part, unless of course you can afford to live in a trendy neighborhood such as Park Slope. Living in Brooklyn, you're a city resident and pay NYC taxes. And you probably live in an over-priced, smaller than average apartment with no amenities. In many cases, you have to go to the laundromat to do your laundry or alternatively, pay someone there to wash your underwear. At the same time, you could be traveling an hour or more to work or to take advantage the theater, museums, dining options, etc. So, you spend as much time commuting as a typical suburbanite elsewhere in the country, but you don't get to enjoy any of the benefits of suburban living, e.g. cheaper, more spacious homes, cleaner air, sitting out on the deck and being able to view trees and grass, being able to gaze at the stars, etc.

Btw, re: the subway comment, does it surprise you that people might not enjoy taking long subway rides? Just a few of the things I've witnessed on the subway: someone lighting up a cigarette, a woman and her son eating pistachios and throwing the shells on the floor of the train, a "preacher" telling us we would all die if we didn't embrace Jesus, and a magic show in which the magician released a bird inside the car. And of course, there's all the usual crap like blaring radios, people spitting, and an aversion to deodorant and/or bathing. I can't imagine why anyone would have a problem dealing with that day after day, year after year.
 
Old 09-26-2007, 08:59 AM
 
Location: Bronx, NY
1,526 posts, read 5,596,052 times
Reputation: 301
Yes, in my opinion Roseba's posts are incredibly insulting (esp to residents who choose to or must live in the "uncultured nether regions" that are everything outside of Manhattan...lol...), naive, and self serving, and she did get some nasty digs in there directed towards me as I recall. I am a very nice person...but I don't take kindly to insults, and I can, will, and should defend myself.

Why do you think you're entitled to instant gratification? Why do you think you're the only one taking the same subway day in and day out? Why do you think you're entitled to live in Manhattan if you don't have the means to do so, or if you or yours didn't buy in when it was a hellish place to live and you had to put up with the hellish conditions like everyone else? Would you like everyone to move out of Manhattan for your personal convenience and lower the prices to your satisfaction simply because you can't deal with the real world?

And just like Hustla, who answers only what he chooses to, I have no answer to the question of what happened with Roseba's dad who invested in a brownstone in the city back in the day. Where's that money/property now? Why can't she reap any benefit from that equity now? I'm not her or her father, so I can't answer that question.

If you think the subways are bad now, then you didn't live here in the 70s, 80s, or even part of the 90s. Don't even get me started. How about literally risking life and limb every day, twice a day?

Solution number one? Move out of NYC.

Solution number two? Invest now, if you still can. Today's dump is tomorrow's "overpriced" property. But you have to pay your dues and stick with the area if you think it's going to improve. If not, don't.

Next....
 
Old 09-26-2007, 09:38 AM
 
Location: Mott Haven
2,978 posts, read 3,990,697 times
Reputation: 209
Alysee...its not that I do not understand what Roseba is saying..I do. However, I dunno know what she wants by complaining about prices and not being able to get what she feels she deserves, or living somewhere that she wants at the price she deems fair.

She comes across as whining and pointless. That is life...the good, the bad, the ugly. Do I think it's wonderful that I have to pay $1,250 to live in Mott Haven..heck no! I would rather be on a fabulous estate in the Hamptons...as would everyone I suspect. Life is not fair, her can of tuna now costs $3.99 instead of .99 cents and she is complaining about it...well..we are all paying that price, and there are even more people who want to pay $4.50 for that same can of tuna!

That is life in the city....and it is getting more expensive not cheaper. How do you solve this problem? You can move away, or get creative to ease the burden...maybe she needs to go back to school so she can acquire new/better skills that would make her more marketable and she can dramatically increase her salary and quality of life? Maybe she should live with some roomies so she can save money to buy something that is more to her liking? Maybe she should start her own business and find success that way? Maybe she can pool with others and buy something.

It is not easy..and it isn't getting any easier. You do what you have to...welcome to adulthood!
 
Old 09-26-2007, 09:49 AM
 
Location: Arlington, VA
89 posts, read 227,843 times
Reputation: 32
Quote:
Originally Posted by Elvira Black View Post
Yes, in my opinion Roseba's posts are incredibly insulting (esp to residents who choose to or must live in the "uncultured nether regions" that are everything outside of Manhattan...lol...), naive, and self serving, and she did get some nasty digs in there directed towards me as I recall. I am a very nice person...but I don't take kindly to insults, and I can, will, and should defend myself.

Why do you think you're entitled to instant gratification? Why do you think you're the only one taking the same subway day in and day out? Why do you think you're entitled to live in Manhattan if you don't have the means to do so, or if you or yours didn't buy in when it was a hellish place to live and you had to put up with the hellish conditions like everyone else? Would you like everyone to move out of Manhattan for your personal convenience and lower the prices to your satisfaction simply because you can't deal with the real world?

And just like Hustla, who answers only what he chooses to, I have no answer to the question of what happened with Roseba's dad who invested in a brownstone in the city back in the day. Where's that money/property now? Why can't she reap any benefit from that equity now? I'm not her or her father, so I can't answer that question.

If you think the subways are bad now, then you didn't live here in the 70s, 80s, or even part of the 90s. Don't even get me started. How about literally risking life and limb every day, twice a day?

Solution number one? Move out of NYC.

Solution number two? Invest now, if you still can. Today's dump is tomorrow's "overpriced" property. But you have to pay your dues and stick with the area if you think it's going to improve. If not, don't.

Next....
I think I'm entitled to instant gratification? And you know this about me, how exactly? You know nothing about me or my life aside from what I've chosen to post in a public forum. You have no right to make that comment about me. And you have no right to assume I can't deal with the real world. I am not asking everyone to move out of Manhattan and lower the prices for my convenience. While I recognize the sarcasm, it's still among the most asinine comments I've read on this board.

As for Roseba's dad and some brownstone he bought back in the day, why is what happened to it your or anyone else's business?

Regarding the subways, I wasn't born until the 70s and didn't start riding the subways until 1990 when I went to college in Manhattan. (Guess that automatically makes me some yuppie or spoiled Gen-X'er, huh?) They may have improved since the really bad days, but there's still room for improvement. If London can operate an efficient system, I don't see why we can't. I swear I never waited more than 3 minutes for a train there. Plus, you're not subjected to random people trying to "entertain" you in stations and on the subway. If memory serves, you need a busking license to perform in London.

Invest where? In Bushwick or Bed Stuy? Sorry, but you couldn't pay me to live in either place because I don't think it's safe for a single family. I'm not willing to risk life and limb, as you put it, just to own property. If other people do it, that's their prerogative and I wish them luck. But it's not for me.

What I still can't seem to understand is why people are willing to live in a crappy, high crime area just so they can live in NY. What about living here makes it worth to take that kind of chance. I'm all for paying my dues, but don't see why that must involve putting my life at risk.

So, yes. I think the answer for me is to find somewhere else to live. I've seen enough of the country to know that the world does not revolve around NYC.
 
Old 09-26-2007, 10:03 AM
 
Location: Mott Haven
2,978 posts, read 3,990,697 times
Reputation: 209
Alysee..not many people can understand the attraction to live in NYC....and that's okay..it certianly is not for everyone. So if it is not worth it to you..or you cannot fathom why people would venture to the boroughs in areas you term dangerous or crappy..that's okay. Those typically seeking out housing in those neighborhoods are not going for the schools, the gucci stores, or the fabulous nightlife. They are sacrificing, as many do, to get a piece of the pie...that's it. Simple. They feel it is worth it..and you don't. Done. I don't see the value in paying $25,000 for a comic book, but some do....and I don't criticize, complain, or complain that I cannot buy that comic book for $5 bucks because "that's what it really is worth." Yes the paper and costs to print and distruibute make the $5 cost accurate, but clearly there is other value that people see...and that I don't. The market has determined that value. Period. Done.

I am glad that you recognize that the world does not revolve around NYC....there are plenty of great cities in this country, as well as the world. I encourage everyone to go out and live their lives out there....as there are 10 people anxiously waiting to take your place and pay more for it to.
 
Old 09-26-2007, 10:42 AM
 
Location: Bronx, NY
1,526 posts, read 5,596,052 times
Reputation: 301
I agree, London has its attractions and great points, but also has a large homegrown terrorist threat, serious racial/religious tension, and other problems, as all large cities do. When I went there many years ago, I adored the subway system, but on the other hand, the signs everywhere not to leave luggage/bags unattended was also new to me, as NYC did not yet have a palpable terrorist threat. At the time, the IRA were active, and the danger for Londoners was very real.

I was using the "royal" you--it applies more accurately to Roseba, who has posted in great detail and at great length here. I can only base my responses to what she posted. You defended her, and you don't know her any better than I, and I don't know if you read the entire thread through--it is quite long. She did make a point of mentioning her father investing, and since she has gone point by point into all the things that make her life so unpleasant here, I think it is reasonable to ask wonder why her father's investment here didn't seem to benefit her now. Of course, she can answer or not as she chooses.

Every generation has its problems which are different than others. But I have the perspective which comes from fifty years of living in three boroughs in this city, and I know something of its history even before then in my mom's day. I think it's a valid observation to say that, having personally experienced the subways and crime in Manhattan in decades past, that folks who wish they could afford Manhattan now would likely never have lived there then despite the obvious attractions. So it all comes out in the wash.

If I came across as excessively "belligerent," it is probably partly because folks like Hustla seem to feel that they know best what others should do. After reading his voluminous, one-note posts, I am more and more convinced that for whatever reason, he would like to see the white folks stay in "their part of town." Thing is, the area I'm in used to be some of my "folks'" part of town. And so the cycle of NYC continues.

I too have thought about what it might be like to move not only out of state, but out of the country--say, to Amsterdam. But I am unlikely to do so, in part because immigration restrictions are very stringent there now. And I still love NYC, despite 9/11 and all the rest.

So I apologize if I have offended you. People on this forum have very strong opinions, and they are all valuable. If everyone thought the same and didn't complain, it just wouldn't be New York.
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