I'm here to clear the air about all of the ghettos of NYC. Ask away. (New York: renting, incomes)

[cokatie]

Originally Posted by SobroGuy

You know me...always harping on the distant past:

Michael Daragjati, cop accused of racism-fueled false arrest, case prompts probe of NYPD policy

"A judge this week slammed Daragjati as "a blatant racist" after he was busted for violating a man's civil rights by fabricating charges against him.

"I fried another n-----," Daragjati crowed last April, according to a transcript of a phone conversation the feds intercepted while he was under investigation for insurance fraud.

Adams, a retired NYPD captain, said thousands of minorities have been swept into the criminal justice system, without justification, to meet illegal quotas.

Those stopped, he said, later find it difficult to get jobs or get accepted into college.

"We are criminalizing thousands of young people in New York City," Adams said. "What is it going to take before we realize this is a citywide problem?"



But according to cokatie, this never happens anymore, and has nothing to do with the criminalization of entire groups of people. Nope...they all get arrested because they deserve it! I have lots of faith in Blacks and they have lots of faith in eachother, but clearly the problems are those, like the Police Force (or employers, or businesses, etc), who don't, and continue to make sure Blacks don't prosper. Welcome to 1797...err...2011.

I will agree with you though, that Jews are by far the most victimized people in the world, for thousands of years scapegoated for everything.

Come on Sobro - stop coming at me like I said racism doesn't exist. It does. For all of us on different levels. If you want to carry the entire cross, then have it, my friend. I got a newsflash for you Sobro - 20 years from now there are STILL going to be racist cops. That's just a sad fact. Why? Because racism starts in the HOME. And it runs BOTH ways - trust me. I've experienced it personally myself. The difference between us is that I pity THE PERSON who is racist. I'm not them. And I'm grateful to God that I don't have to be them. I don't want to carry all that hatred around with me. Because it will limit ME. I won't let anyone have that power over me.

I have faced racism as a woman (working in banks in the 80's was no freaking catwalk); as a Catholic (in England - where I made sure I got the idiot fired the next day); as being of Irish descent (in England again - but this time my temper got the better of me and that ******* landed flying off his stool into a heap on the ground); as a white person on numerous occasions - but my favorite being the older black guy that SCREAMED at me over at the Macy's in Brooklyn that I should leave because this was THEIR (who?) neighborhood; as a NY'er while driving through - funny enough - Alabama - who when given my license during a speeding stop said "Hot Damn, I got me a Yankee". Oh, and by the way, he was black.

Have I ever been arrested - either falsely or for a reason? Nope. And you know why? Because even though I have cousins who are cops, I make myself VERY scarce when I see any cop. White, Black, Hispanic, Man, Woman. There is no way, in any situation, that you are going to come out the winner in a confrontation with them. Not happening. For any of us. And that's not about racism - it's because I have enough street smarts to fade into the background. I'm not attacking cops. The good outweigh the bad in that department in a BIG way. But in most cases they are already on edge, they have already had to file a ton of complaints by the time they come onto a new one, there is a very real chance they can end up shot, there is also a very real chance that if they don't handle something correctly they are going up on report. So basically, they are already tense. Don't bait an angry bear.

I'm not going to argue with you anymore Sobro. I wrote a freaking essay above and you come back with a false arrest report. You ignored everything else. You want to hold historical events to you like a warm blanket. If that's the case, then do yourself a favor and pick-up a book on the Irish in America. See how those people dealt with discrimination and not only stopped it - but came out on top in the large political machines of the day. Refuse to be discriminated again. But do it smartly, with good planning and absolute calculation. Refuse to be anyone's victim. And certainly don't come on a public forum embracing that victim role. You ARE better than that.

[SobroGuy]

What I provided was not a "false arrest" report. Is that what you think is happening in the NYPD? It is a criminalization of entire generations of colored kids, all because, well they are poor and brown/black. A concerted effort to subjugate them, and then you blame them for not having a job or getting an education...they now all have records so what options do they have?

As for the Irish, they had a big advantage that Blacks did not: A: they were not bought and sold here in chains, and B: They easily are white.

And the basics of your conversation regarding cops is that "they are already tense" and "don't bait an angry bear." WTF are you talking about? They are paid to protect and serve, not attack and incarcerate as many brown/blacks as they can to meet quotas. It sounds to me like you are making cops the victims here, and the people should really stay out of their way and "use some street smarts and fade into the background" and "make myself very scarce when I see a cop." What is this Iran? So now it's blacks fault for not hiding whenever they see a cop!

Holy Smokes!

[heetseeker]

Originally Posted by SobroGuy

What I provided was not a "false arrest" report. Is that what you think is happening in the NYPD? It is a criminalization of entire generations of colored kids, all because, well they are poor and brown/black. A concerted effort to subjugate them, and then you blame them for not having a job or getting an education...they now all have records so what options do they have?

As for the Irish, they had a big advantage that Blacks did not: A: they were not bought and sold here in chains, and B: They easily are white.

And the basics of your conversation regarding cops is that "they are already tense" and "don't bait an angry bear." WTF are you talking about? They are paid to protect and serve, not attack and incarcerate as many brown/blacks as they can to meet quotas. It sounds to me like you are making cops the victims here, and the people should really stay out of their way and "use some street smarts and fade into the background" and "make myself very scarce when I see a cop." What is this Iran? So now it's blacks fault for not hiding whenever they see a cop!

Holy Smokes!

Colored kids did I read that right, Whoa you really do live in the 60's man.

[SobroGuy]

The 60s indeed...1760s that is, the way so many people are doing the same things as they did back then.

Well I certainly can't call them a minority seeing as they are the majority in NYC and the world for that matter. I can only imagine that people think I am the Angry Black Man, but I am neither angry nor Black, but highly educated and high income, and if you met me randomly on the street I would be as "white" as everyone else. The irony!

[joshd9124]

Originally Posted by ny789987

There is no such thing as "institutionalized racism." Give me a freakin break! In the hood, you don't even have to work and the system showers you with subsidized housing, free education, free food, etc, etc. Contrary to the mythology of the "man" always trying to keep you down, the system goes out of its way to give hoodlums a chance to climb out of the ghetto. Try not working in a 3rd world country and see what happens to you..... you will starve! Despite all these resources being thrown at them, hood rats squander it all. They take every opportunity given to them and turn it all into cr-p. No effort or willingness to improve their lot in life.

Just look at the illegal Chinese immigrants that come here from China. They don't even speak English! Surely they must bump into that wall of "institutional racism" that you always fret about. How come their kids are not out at 2am shooting up Chinatown/Flushing, running around with their pants pulled down past their ankels, while intentionally trying to mangle the English language? No, they are off working 2-3 jobs in restaurants/sweatshops and pushing their kids to suceed in school. By the 2nd generation they are climbing into the middle class, while the hood rats are "whadup'ing" in the ghetto pumping out more miscreants.

Wow thats pretty ignorant first of all their are Chinese gangs and organized crime in Chinatown, two you really think that measly welfare and that horrible public school education in the inner city is gonna help? You obviously never been to a really bad school the teachers dont give a **** they usually give up hope and are just there to collect a check. Meanwhile these kids have no home training because their fathers are gone and their moms are off working her ass off with 2-3 jobs.

So these kids arent getting any guidance from school and none from their parents where are they gonna turn the nearest adults that give them some attention the OG's and big time hustlers. Either that or the rappers you listen to because they come from where your from and made it or the ball players for the same reason, since you know the education your getting is a joke becoming a rapper or athlete seems almost more possible than being a doctor or lawyer.

[bg7]

Every elite public high school in NYC is majority asian. MAJORITY asian (ie more than whites too), even while asians are the smallest minority in NYC. The percentage of the asian students with immigrant parents is high. They have language barriers which are huge, and they suffer racism (tho I'm not going to compare the amount of racism suffered). Chinese and other asian immigrants, as a group, are an excellent example of cultural choices succeeding against both real and imagined societal barriers. Look back in 20 years time and see how far they got.

[njnyckid]

Originally Posted by ny789987

There is no such thing as "institutionalized racism." Give me a freakin break! In the hood, you don't even have to work and the system showers you with subsidized housing, free education, free food, etc, etc. Contrary to the mythology of the "man" always trying to keep you down, the system goes out of its way to give hoodlums a chance to climb out of the ghetto. Try not working in a 3rd world country and see what happens to you..... you will starve! Despite all these resources being thrown at them, hood rats squander it all. They take every opportunity given to them and turn it all into cr-p. No effort or willingness to improve their lot in life.

Just look at the illegal Chinese immigrants that come here from China. They don't even speak English! Surely they must bump into that wall of "institutional racism" that you always fret about. How come their kids are not out at 2am shooting up Chinatown/Flushing, running around with their pants pulled down past their ankels, while intentionally trying to mangle the English language? No, they are off working 2-3 jobs in restaurants/sweatshops and pushing their kids to suceed in school. By the 2nd generation they are climbing into the middle class, while the hood rats are "whadup'ing" in the ghetto pumping out more miscreants.

One of the biggest misconceptions is that a vast majority of immigrants are able to succeed above and beyond other Americans. NOT ALWAYS TRUE! Believe it or not, there ARE Asian people who are living in poverty in NYC:
https://blackboard.rutgers.edu/bbcswebdav/xid-507500_2 (broken link)

Another thing people don't consider when it comes to black Americans in poverty vs. immigrants in poverty is the psychological effect. Immigrants CHOOSE to come here, therefore have SOME trust in America's government. The same doesn't apply to a group of people who've been subjected to many tribulations for centuries, it's completely when you consider the history of blacks why a significant number have been reluctant to take advantage of this country's capital system.

[bg7]

and there are white people in poverty in NYC too. What is your point?

[SobroGuy]

I agree that there are cultural issues here, which help explain why some Asian populations excel in school. But it should be noted we are not comparing apples to apples. You are trying to compare a population which values education, and chose to come here to take advantage of those opportunities, to a population that was sold into slavery, and whose culture/values/family structure was destroyed, and at best considered 3/5ths of a person.

How can you possibly compare the 2????????

[njnyckid]

Originally Posted by bg7

and there are white people in poverty in NYC too. What is your point?

My point is that EVERY time people talk about poverty in NYC (and America in general), black people are the first group to be looked at and then people make the unfair comparison to immigrants "Oh they're able to come from poor countries and be successful here, why can't the blacks do it?". That's completely narrow thinking, it's not that cut and dry at all.

And cokatie, I'm sure you mean well but your response to SoBro's post (which was great, by the way) are missing some important details about why blacks have suffered for so long in this country. You keep saying "And we moved on" when if you look at the extra details, this country did not exactly move on from it's former racist policies, they just made more subtle ways of doing it.