Do you think NY's "specialized" high schools are "racist"? (New York: train, education)

[celticvisa]

A few questions:

Is there a bIzArRe racial imbalance at Stuyvesant?
Yes.

Is this racial imbalance caused by a test?
Yes

(There is a racial imbalance at the New York City Fire Department due to a test and a Federal Judge has ordered the city to eliminate the test.)

Are African American and Latino students at a disadvantage when they take this test?
Yes. They come from poor, underserved neighborhoods. They do not come from a "culture" that actively promotes educational excellence - they come from a culture of poverty and SURVIVAL. They live in a society in which African American and Latino people are still discriminated against.

Are New York City's Specialized High Schools racist?
Yes

[Kefir King]

Is racial imbalance cause by a test? Maybe.

Are African American and Latino students at a disadvantage when they take this test? Perhaps, but the cause of this disadvantage is not clear.
Obviously being from a "poor, underserved neighborhood" is not reason enough or else the school would not be heavily toploaded with Asian students.

We KNOW the taking the test results in a skewed racial population. Positing reasons for this skewing is conjecture and leaving out any possibility of racial differences in intelligence is specious.

For example: What is 2 + 2? (You may consider any answer other than 4!)

If we can assume that STUDENTS differ wildly in intelligence, and that ADULTS differ wildly in intelligence, why is it impossible that RACES differ in average intellligence, especially when intelligence testing shows that indeed they DO differ.
Why must OTHER reasons/excuses be found for poor performance on intelligence tests other than intelligence differences?

I really mean that: WHY?

[LegalDiva]

Originally Posted by celticvisa

A few questions:

Is there a bIzArRe racial imbalance at Stuyvesant?
Yes.

Is this racial imbalance caused by a test?
Yes

(There is a racial imbalance at the New York City Fire Department due to a test and a Federal Judge has ordered the city to eliminate the test.)

Are African American and Latino students at a disadvantage when they take this test?
Yes. They come from poor, underserved neighborhoods. They do not come from a "culture" that actively promotes educational excellence - they come from a culture of poverty and SURVIVAL. They live in a society in which African American and Latino people are still discriminated against.

Are New York City's Specialized High Schools racist?
Yes

Wow! So you advocate abolishing the entrance tests and basically let any dummies into these schools? How can you compare the FIRE department decisions to the academic nature of entrance exams here? The reason the FDNY exam was eliminated was because a good firefighter doesnt need to know the meaning of Pi or what the definition of a gerund is, much less understand how to calculate the angles of a right triangle, a good firefighter has the balls to go into a burning building where others run far away- an academic test DOES NOT measure that degree of bravery!....whereas students at Stuyvesant are taking a test which is designed to groom them for admissions to higher elite academic universitie, hence why items they are being tested on the SHSAT ARE vital to the purpose of admission!!

I dont think the test itself is racist. If it were, you would see 100% white students. But you dont. In fact, there are probably more Asian students who dont speak English well admitted than African American students who still think Ebonics is the way all Textbooks are written! The problem is much wider, and the net effect is a racial imbalance in these schools but its not based on a racist test, its based on the high percentage of minority students who simply POORLY prepared to achieve on the test.

[AllenDullesMJ12]

Originally Posted by celticvisa

Are New York City's Specialized High Schools racist?
Yes

Is intelligence racist?

The tests have to be rigorous because that's the kind of work the students will have to do once they are part of the high school. They are going to spend hours of study for several subjects. If they can't even take up time to study for one exam then they don't belong in that kind of school.

In the end it's a personal choice. Whether the student is going to put focus in their academic studies, slack off or gang bang with their homies.

[leoliu]

Originally Posted by gimme it

Actually many of the Chinese students admitted to Stuy are eligible for free lunch. Many come from poor neighborhoods.

Good point.
My Chinese colleague immigrated to US in her 30s with two teen children . She has been living in one of the welfare buildings in downtown Manhattan. She did not go to college herself in China. Despite her low household income and poor English environment at home, both her children made it to the NYC specialized schools and later on to the Ivies. One of them is now a medical resident in NYC.

I have encountered a lot of "born" poor blacks who found their way aop of the majority of their peers, and do not say that they are only exceptions. The will and mental power inside makes a lot more difference, particularly in such an affluent society like US. And I wonder how many AA/Latino parents pass such important qualities and life values to their children or encourage them to acquire such values.

For a lot of internationals, US still ranks very highly in terms of job opportunities to make one's way through. Americans in general are very fair in encouraging, not holding back, others to maximize their potential. But it still requires a mindset, determination, and diligence to achieve better quality of life. If one has little self motivation, they can only drag along any societal progression at the bottom.

[leoliu]

A place with 0 discrimination of any sort, including racism, might only exist in heaven. But not everybody may qualify to go to heaven after their last day on the earth, because even GOD has a strict selection criteria.

Discriminating and being discriminated are everywhere in every society, no matter if it consists of a single race or multi races. Even within the loving kingdoms of families and relatives/friends, there exit similar feelings.

If you look for racism with magnifying glasses, you will find it. But is that really a magic answer for the existing racial inequalities?

Learn to live with the glaring fact that all humans are born to be different but with an equal right to choose how much one is willing to do to change one's situation later in life.

Originally Posted by celticvisa

A few questions:

Is there a bIzArRe racial imbalance at Stuyvesant?
Yes.

Is this racial imbalance caused by a test?
Yes

(There is a racial imbalance at the New York City Fire Department due to a test and a Federal Judge has ordered the city to eliminate the test.)

Are African American and Latino students at a disadvantage when they take this test?
Yes. They come from poor, underserved neighborhoods. They do not come from a "culture" that actively promotes educational excellence - they come from a culture of poverty and SURVIVAL. They live in a society in which African American and Latino people are still discriminated against.

Are New York City's Specialized High Schools racist?
Yes

[Kefir King]

The NYC Marathon has just finished for the fastest runners. The field of runners was perhaps 90% white, judging from the hour I watched on First Avenue.
However the winning men were 2 Kenyans and an Ethiopian. Geoffrey Mutai, Kenyan, broke the course record set 10 years earlier by an Ethiiopian.
The top 3 women runners were 2 Ethiopians and a Kenyan.
The fasted dozen men runners at the middle of the race were black with possibly one Hispanic who seemed to drop back.

Orientals and whites, who seem to be able to get into Stuyvesant easily, did particularly poorly.

So, is this test of speed and endurance RACIST?

Or do the parents in Ethiopia and Kenya take more care to train their kids for this test? Are they encouraged to take "homework" runs every night?

Or is excellence in speed and endurance potential inherently different for different races?

[leoliu]

Originally Posted by DAS

How did the discussion of intelligence and race, get into this thread, with posters explaining that the lack of intelligence keeps Blacks and Latins out of specialized high schools?

With the exception of Brooklyn Tech which has Eastern European and Russian immigrant teens, you don't see Whites in Stuyvesant at all. I'm sure there are some but when ever I pass by there, which is often I don't see any at all.

My friends that have teens in Bronx Science says there are very few Whites, Latins, and Blacks there that it appears that you can count them on one hand.

It appears to me that both the White Americans, the Black Americans and the Latin Americans that have been in this country for some decades need to study a lot harder. or maybe all three groups are lacking in intelligence.

Since some posters are explaining that Latin and Black teens have parents that can't parent, being poor, and the groups lacking in intelligence etc etc as to why Blacks are not attending these schools; can anyone explain why White American teens, that are not children of immigrants can't get into those schools anymore?

If this is true, it is a very interesting observation. Could it be that these specialized high schools are becoming an educational ponzi ...

[leoliu]

Originally Posted by Kefir King

The NYC Marathon has just finished for the fastest runners. The field of runners was perhaps 90% white, judging from the hour I watched on First Avenue.
However the winning men were 2 Kenyans and an Ethiopian. Geoffrey Mutai, Kenyan, broke the course record set 10 years earlier by an Ethiiopian.
The top 3 women runners were 2 Ethiopians and a Kenyan.
The fasted dozen men runners at the middle of the race were black with possibly one Hispanic who seemed to drop back.

Orientals and whites, who seem to be able to get into Stuyvesant easily, did particularly poorly.

So, is this test of speed and endurance RACIST?

Or do the parents in Ethiopia and Kenya take more care to train their kids for this test? Are they encouraged to take "homework" runs every night?

Or is excellence in speed and endurance potential inherently different for different races?

In the current cycle of civilization, knowledge or the ability/effort spent to acquire knowledge rules over physical in most lines of daily life.

Who knows or can predict how things will be like in the next civilization cycle. Physical fitness may well dominate again, so I will encourage my future generations to look up to that possibility and get ready to adapt to societal evolutions.

[Andez]

Originally Posted by Kefir King

The NYC Marathon has just finished for the fastest runners. The field of runners was perhaps 90% white, judging from the hour I watched on First Avenue.
However the winning men were 2 Kenyans and an Ethiopian. Geoffrey Mutai, Kenyan, broke the course record set 10 years earlier by an Ethiiopian.
The top 3 women runners were 2 Ethiopians and a Kenyan.
The fasted dozen men runners at the middle of the race were black with possibly one Hispanic who seemed to drop back.

Orientals and whites, who seem to be able to get into Stuyvesant easily, did particularly poorly.

So, is this test of speed and endurance RACIST?

Or do the parents in Ethiopia and Kenya take more care to train their kids for this test? Are they encouraged to take "homework" runs every night?

Or is excellence in speed and endurance potential inherently different for different races?

So basically what I'm getting from you is you think if a black kid was raised from birth by a family that follows the exact regimens of an asian family, he wouldn't be as smart as the asian because he's black. Right?