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Hmm. I see. Thanks for the info. Can't believe a good studio goes for 2000... How much do the people in NYC make a month if rent is so expensive?
Gosh, you do not seem to know much about NYC. Some serious homework is suggested.
There are more multi-millionaires and billionaires living in NYC than anywhere in the world, you do know that don't you?
A wild guesstimate is that 75% of all household incomes exceed $100,000. Salaries here are gaged on a weekly basis not monthly, as you find in most of the country.
There are more people earning $150K, 300K, and 500K, than anywhere else in the country.
$50K is an average low end salary, and is barely liveable; and, yes there are many poor people earning less. Anyone living a minimaly desireable lifestyle earns at least $75K, as a single and still requires some sacrafice. Anything less requires frugality and many sacrafices.
So, any notions of packing up and heading to NYC and living on a 'retail' job salary is a fantasy. Of course, you can always try packing into a 1 bedrm apt with 3 or 4 roommates, and see how long that lasts.
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There is, Desireable, Manageable, and Undesireable. Anything virtually anywhere begins at $1600 for minimally desireable. In the outer boroughs, your rent range falls into the 'Manageable' category, but note, it is not truly 'desireable!!
The reasons which cause a place/apt to be either manageable or undesireable varies from high crime, poor quality or poor inconvenient location; or some combination.
So the rents that you are attracted to come with issues! What issues a person can deal with is relative to that person and differs for everyone.
Some people have to deal with high crime for cheap rent. Some have to deal with poorly maintained apts for cheap or fair rent. Sometimes you can find poor quality apt in a good neighborhood at a fair rent. Sometimes a good quality apt in bad neighborhood for good rent.
So, when reviewing ads on Craigslist, you must do so with a grain of salt. The cheaper the rent the greater the issues and compromises necessary. The key is figuring out what issues come with each ad. Then determing what combination of issues and compromise is right for you.
Either that or figure a way to pay more rent!
For some, there just is no satisfactory combination to be found at the rent level they can afford.
A wild guesstimate is that 75% of all household incomes exceed $100,000. Salaries here are gaged on a weekly basis not monthly, as you find in most of the country.
There are more people earning $150K, 300K, and 500K, than anywhere else in the country.
$50K is an average low end salary, and is barely liveable; and, yes there are many poor people earning less. Anyone living a minimaly desireable lifestyle earns at least $75K, as a single and still requires some sacrafice. Anything less requires frugality and many sacrafices.
Your statistics may hold true for certain Manhattan zip codes, but there are plenty of working and middle class wage earners in this city. I can assure you that a single person earning 75k can live perfectly well, even in Manhattan. Will they have a deluxe apartment in the sky -- of course not -- but will they have a warm bed to sleep in at night, food in the fridge and enough money leftover to save a bit and have some fun, absolutely.
Your statistics may hold true for certain Manhattan zip codes, but there are plenty of working and middle class wage earners in this city. I can assure you that a single person earning 75k can live perfectly well, even in Manhattan. Will they have a deluxe apartment in the sky -- of course not -- but will they have a warm bed to seep in at night, food in the fridge and enough money leftover to save a bit and have some fun, absolutely.
I think "perfectly well" is very subjective. I'll bet money that it's not the same definition as "perfectly well" many people outside of NYC would think if they made 75k... I think it's closer in the range of "okay". NYers make a lot of compromises for being in NYC...
I am always suspect of the Real Estate studies showing how very expensive everything is. We know that real estate people earn more if prices are higher, both agent sale and landlord rentals.
I'll bet if we polled EVERY renter here we would find numbers FAR afield of those advertised by THE INDUSTRY STANDARD.
"Why yes Mr. Newcomer, ALL studio apartments sell of over $1 Million. Can we arrange the mortgage for you?"
"Yes, EVERYONE pays over $3000 rent for a 1 bedroom apartment in the elegant section of East Harlem, where all the artists are moving...sign here."
A wild guesstimate is that 75% of all household incomes exceed $100,000. Salaries here are gaged on a weekly basis not monthly, as you find in most of the country.
That guesstimate is far too wild.
Median household income in NYC: $48,631
Median Household income in U.S.: $50,140
Median Family Income Manhattan: $64,217
(For those unsure of the meaninging of MEDIAN it is the middle of the range with 50% being higher and 50% being lower.)
Thus if half of households are below 49K it is cosmically impossible for 75% to exceed $100,000. One might imagine 75% exceeding something like $30-35K but not much more, perhaps less.
Median household income in NYC: $48,631
Median Household income in U.S.: $50,140
Median Family Income Manhattan: $64,217
(For those unsure of the meaninging of MEDIAN it is the middle of the range with 50% being higher and 50% being lower.)
Thus if half of households are below 49K it is cosmically impossible for 75% to exceed $100,000. One might imagine 75% exceeding something like $30-35K but not much more, perhaps less.
Figures such as that are only accurate in the most BROAD sense.
The reality is that a significant portion of those included in those figures live outside the 'Manhattan' norm. For example, in discussing and reviewing the average middle American norm, it is dishonest to include incomes from those living in public housing and at, below or near the povery line.
If you narrow the focus and exclude these incomes, then you should find that my 'Guesstimate' is VERY conservative.
If you are interested in doing the homework, you can check this simply by discovering the median and/or average Manhattan rent and determing whether the median income as you state it above, can realistically support the median/average rent. Using the average w/b more telling.
If the median income cannot support the average rent, then something is amiss.
You also might want to look at the median/average rent excluding rents from public housing and those with incomes at, below or near the poverty level. With this exclusion the rent average for Manhattan will be significantly higher.
Why the 'exclusion' of public housing and those at the poverty line?
Simply because the average middle income and above person earns a real income and pays a rent (generally) unaffected by the income earned or rent paid by those in public housing or at the poverty line.
Moreover, the average middle American has no expectation of living in public housing, nor earning an income at the poverty line. So what point or realistic assessment is served by including such incomes and/or rents?
No one moves to NYC, or specifically, Manhattan with aspirations of living in public housing, nor in a slum building.
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Many people in this forum, for reasons of their own, and/or lack of experience or knowledge, choose to act as if 'middle Americans' are not the overwhleming majority and that such values are not the norm.
Additionally, these same mindsets erroneously choose to accept that better than 50% of Manhattanites (not including the 'exclusions' above) live some form and/or degree of the SexNCity, Seinfeld, Friends lifestyle. That the majority of those who move to this city desire to do the same; and that THIS ifestyle and aspiration is the 'NORM'.
Which is why they ALL want to live in Manhattan and none truly desire to live the life of the outer-boroughs!
Those NOT living this lifestyle are living outside the 'norm'. Everyone in NYC, within the middle class, earns $50K and better.
When the discussion is exclusive to the lower class, working class and/or lower middle class, then the 'exclusions' above must be included.
Having just moved to Manhattan from a much cheaper region of the country a few months ago, I can tell you that you are in for a shock!
Agree with previous poster that 1200-1300 is laughable and will not happen. I managed to find a studio on the Upper East Side in the Yorkville area for a little over $1400 a month. Its TINY, but is actually in good condition and a pretty nice apartment.
So funny when you wrote TINY I thought it was an acronym so immediately I thought it must stand for "Technically In New York" haha. Maybe I'll start something.
Yes indeed, if the poor are discounted from any study of income, the result is a RICH area. Conversely if the rich are excluded the area looks very poor.
Excluding large swaths of data is NOT the way to determine averages.
But if your premise is that among the rich New Yorkers the average income is high, then yes, this truism is correct. The rich DO make a lot of money.
But I cannot think of any more useless data than eliminating the poor to ascertain median income.
(All people in the United States have computers if you eliminate those that don't...all drive cars if you eliminate those who don't.)
To repeat your undefefensible premise:
Quote:
Originally Posted by jcoltrane A wild guesstimate is that 75% of all household incomes exceed $100,000.
A person with some character when he realizes he made an egregiously erroneous statement might say "Oops, I made a mistake." Others would blather on nonsensically.
Quote:
Those NOT living this lifestyle are living outside the 'norm'. Everyone in NYC, within the middle class, earns $50K and better.
Gee, does that mean that those in the Middle Class make a middle class income? How novel? Better yet, does it mean that those making over $50,000 a year make over $50,000 a year? Alert the Economic Journals.
I was going to try to NEVER use the IGNORE button...but it's getting really tough.
Last edited by Kefir King; 11-01-2011 at 03:56 PM..
Be prepared for sticker shock. Anyone who tells you differently is not being truthful. Are there deals out there to be had? Sure. But for life's basics you pay a lot more in general. When I lived there I learned to do without things that I used to take for granted. I became very frugal. And even with 3 roommates clearing $700 a week there were a lot of times where I felt like I was just treading water. $700 a week was decent money where I was from. In NYC, it's easy to be flirting with poverty on that amount. Especially if you're a newcomer who doesn't know their way around yet.
I remember renting a large (650 sqft) alcove studio on the Upper West Side back in 1979 for $350 per month in a large doorman building. I bought that apartment in 1987 and rented it out for $1,200 per month way back than. That apartment rents today for $2,500 per month. Back in the 70's you could live very comfortably in Manhattan on $20K per year, today you need $120K. That's called inflation!
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