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Old 11-08-2011, 02:52 AM
 
Location: In the heights
36,916 posts, read 38,838,960 times
Reputation: 20934

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Streamline more of the systems to become automated like the rail lines in East Asian countries (computerized dispatchers are not the end of the world!)

Give better data and presentation of that data to the public.

Related to this is to post schedule changes for before you walk up or down into the stations themselves and save for everyone a flight of stairs. Yes, the installment of signs is somewhat costly but in the long run will be more efficient than trying to print all those changes and then having someone physically post them up.

Run night buses instead of 24 hour train lines on some of the lines. I understand this doesn't jive well with some people, but it's less costly for the most part and still about as efficient (there is minimal traffic at night to wade through). Use that time to do maintenance on the rail lines.

Have a dedicated revenue stream directly proportional to the value that properties close to rail stations benefit from rather than constantly beg for money. The metro system is an overall money maker. Places close to stations are more valuable and this should be reflected in the MTA's budget more equitably.

Don't have the MTA union do all jobs--obviously there are better people to contract for certain things such as fixing the escalators.

Integrate more services between the other service lines such as Metro-North and LIRR. It is the cheapest solution to greatly expanding the network with little additional infrastructure costs.

Get going as soon as possible on RFID cards instead of swipes. This is nice for subways, but crucial for buses because of the loading time it takes to have someone fumble slowly with swiping their cards. This is not a hard solution and it is easy to have someone simply wave their card somewhere close to the sensor and let them on.

Open up the restrooms and have better monitoring systems for them. This is a sanitation issue. It is well worth its cost, though obviously MTA should get some kind of compensation for doing so. We should realize that the transit system is more than just getting someone from point A to point B, so we should distribute funds accordingly.
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Old 11-08-2011, 03:51 AM
 
Location: On the Rails in Northern NJ
12,380 posts, read 26,754,070 times
Reputation: 4580
Quote:
Originally Posted by OyCrumbler View Post
Streamline more of the systems to become automated like the rail lines in East Asian countries (computerized dispatchers are not the end of the world!)

Give better data and presentation of that data to the public.

Related to this is to post schedule changes for before you walk up or down into the stations themselves and save for everyone a flight of stairs. Yes, the installment of signs is somewhat costly but in the long run will be more efficient than trying to print all those changes and then having someone physically post them up.

Run night buses instead of 24 hour train lines on some of the lines. I understand this doesn't jive well with some people, but it's less costly for the most part and still about as efficient (there is minimal traffic at night to wade through). Use that time to do maintenance on the rail lines.

Have a dedicated revenue stream directly proportional to the value that properties close to rail stations benefit from rather than constantly beg for money. The metro system is an overall money maker. Places close to stations are more valuable and this should be reflected in the MTA's budget more equitably.

Don't have the MTA union do all jobs--obviously there are better people to contract for certain things such as fixing the escalators.

Integrate more services between the other service lines such as Metro-North and LIRR. It is the cheapest solution to greatly expanding the network with little additional infrastructure costs.

Get going as soon as possible on RFID cards instead of swipes. This is nice for subways, but crucial for buses because of the loading time it takes to have someone fumble slowly with swiping their cards. This is not a hard solution and it is easy to have someone simply wave their card somewhere close to the sensor and let them on.

Open up the restrooms and have better monitoring systems for them. This is a sanitation issue. It is well worth its cost, though obviously MTA should get some kind of compensation for doing so. We should realize that the transit system is more than just getting someone from point A to point B, so we should distribute funds accordingly.
Computerized systems have shown us that when they fail people die in bad accidents , so humans are better controls. They tired to do a computerized system in Tokyo , but the Riders felt unsafe and there were massive failures....so they have operators and conductors again... and Ticket agents....

I agree the MTA needs to work there data presentations...

They post the Schedule changes at the Major stations , but they should have them at all the stations , although the new countdown clocks have them...

Idk if running Night buses on some lines in replacement of trains would be the right thing to do....that might cause too many issues

Idk if the MTA wants too muck itself up with Real Estate , the PA already does this and has failed terribly... Hong Kong and Tokyo are the 2 cities that do it right....

I don't think the MTA union does the escalator and elevator union , i think that's contracted out...

Integrate more services how? What we need is more regional rail lines and more terminals , the current system is half built and over crowded... We need at least 3 more East - West lines to sustain regional Rail growth properly... the proposal below is what this region needs at least in the core and we need to create one system , merging NJT , LIRR and MNRR...





I agree with the Smart cards , its going to be an Embrassment for the MTA when Septa and NJT get them before the largest agency in the country....
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Old 11-08-2011, 04:22 AM
 
Location: In the heights
36,916 posts, read 38,838,960 times
Reputation: 20934
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nexis4Jersey View Post
Computerized systems have shown us that when they fail people die in bad accidents , so humans are better controls. They tired to do a computerized system in Tokyo , but the Riders felt unsafe and there were massive failures....so they have operators and conductors again... and Ticket agents....

I agree the MTA needs to work there data presentations...

They post the Schedule changes at the Major stations , but they should have them at all the stations , although the new countdown clocks have them...

Idk if running Night buses on some lines in replacement of trains would be the right thing to do....that might cause too many issues

Idk if the MTA wants too muck itself up with Real Estate , the PA already does this and has failed terribly... Hong Kong and Tokyo are the 2 cities that do it right....

I don't think the MTA union does the escalator and elevator union , i think that's contracted out...

Integrate more services how? What we need is more regional rail lines and more terminals , the current system is half built and over crowded... We need at least 3 more East - West lines to sustain regional Rail growth properly... the proposal below is what this region needs at least in the core and we need to create one system , merging NJT , LIRR and MNRR...





I agree with the Smart cards , its going to be an Embrassment for the MTA when Septa and NJT get them before the largest agency in the country....

Are you sure about the unions for elevators and escalators? I've seen people doing service work and they were wearing MTA uniforms, but my memory might be fuzzy. In any case, they were doing a terrible job as I remember the one in Washington Heights constantly being under maintenance.

As far as computerized systems go, no, I don't think they have to result in deaths because other countries have implemented them successfully without the deaths/accidents involved. There has to be something we're doing wrong and that needs to be ferreted out. I understand computerized systems can screw up, but so can human operated systems. The fact that automatic controls for systems around the world have been able to operate in the last two decades without major incident points to something wrong with the implementation we've been doing.


It's not simply HK and Tokyo that do it right. Taipei does it, too, and so do a number of East Asian cities and it's only appropriate that the MTA gets some kind of revenue based on the value they add to a community so that people don't decry the MTA as some kind of money sink when they are very apparently adding to the value of a community.

I mean integrate more services in terms of making it easier to take advantage of the various other agencies within the region so that it's easy to turn LIRR and Metro-North into superexpress lines. There is something like what the CityTicket program that's currently implemented but massively expanded in order to best utilize the rails we have in place. And yes, it needs to be expanded to all the regional rail lines--basically the entire idea is to better utilize the regional rail lines.

With night buses, I understand the hesitancy. I totally do. However, with better loading (RFID cards?), the lack of traffic at night, and the priority signalling that we can and should implement regardless of whether or not there are night bus replacements, a night bus can be nearly as efficient in terms of time for passengers as rail (possibly more so since we have a large fleet of buses that can be utilized at the time) and would allow the city to do proper downtime maintenance on the rail tracks when there is the least amount of demand for those lines.
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Old 11-08-2011, 06:28 AM
 
Location: Bergen County, NJ
9,847 posts, read 25,160,139 times
Reputation: 3627
I think I heard/read somewhere that the problem with the wash heights elevators is the location of them combined with the system being ancient. So ancient that it is difficult to find repairmen that are well trained in fixing them.

Here are some more:

-lease out some more space for stores, and not necessarily newstands

-some lines badly need new trains, not so much because of how well they work but moreso for sanitary reasons. The cars are too dirty now. The A which is the workhorse of all subway lines comes to mind for these reasons.

-run bus routes that strategically go to middle and high schools close to each other. These routes would only be during rush hours. This would help with the overcrowding of trains and buses.

Last edited by NooYowkur81; 11-08-2011 at 06:41 AM..
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Old 11-08-2011, 10:40 AM
 
Location: Brooklyn
40,049 posts, read 34,475,681 times
Reputation: 10609
Quote:
Originally Posted by OyCrumbler View Post
Don't have the MTA union do all jobs--obviously there are better people to contract for certain things such as fixing the escalators.
That's the funniest part of your whole proposal. Most of the problems we see now actually started when MTA began contracting out the work.

And as far as this thread's title goes--MTA can't actually be "improved." It could be eliminated, with each of its component systems returning to autonomous status. (Governor Rockefeller actually created MTA to serve as a money pit, not to provide better mass transit in this region). But, as with so many potentially attractive options, you'd have to think twice before screaming and yelling for a dissolution of MTA. New York City Transit--translation: the subways and buses in the five boroughs--would revert to its original status as a city agency. Do you really want that to happen? (I used to think I did, but these days I'm not so sure).
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Old 11-08-2011, 11:14 AM
 
1,682 posts, read 3,156,283 times
Reputation: 729
Automating operation of the subway trains would save a significant amount of cash in the long run. Those against it are fighting a rising tide. It works very effectively even now. Yes, occationally there are accidents. No different then when operated by a human. Washington D.C. may have had a highly pulicized isolated incident but their trains have operated for hours on end with very low rates of accidents. Plenty of systems are already automated, in fact I belive some of the commuter lines in Northern NJ are.

Big money saver. No more training, salaries, benefits, pension, ect, for a number of people.
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Old 11-09-2011, 10:14 AM
 
Location: Brooklyn
40,049 posts, read 34,475,681 times
Reputation: 10609
Quote:
Originally Posted by nykiddo718718 View Post
Automating operation of the subway trains would save a significant amount of cash in the long run. Those against it are fighting a rising tide.
You could possibly be right with that second sentence there. But I can tell you as a Tower Operator: the system would be basically dysfunctional if MTA was to have its way and automate it (which they are hard at work trying to do).

Now I'll tell you why: because ATS--that stands for Automated Train System--only knows how to clear signals for trains. It does NOT reroute trains in case of emergency. Here's an example from the IRT, which is basically running on ATS even now...

Suppose a 6 train 'lays down' (as us transit types say) at 23 Street. This could be for any reason at all. ATS will not reroute the next train to run around it. What happens is...the entire line cannot run. If you have ideas about maintaining service, a human being must override ATS and make the move manually. Say whatever you want about computer technology, but if you want to run a railroad, you need human beings doing it. Especially when it's a railroad that has to carry four million other human beings every day.

And MTA has a very, very poor record of updating technology. They buy it millions of dollars at a time--but apparently believing that it's all they'll ever have to do. Machines may not make what we call 'human mistakes,' but they do malfunction. And they do not live forever. Would you be happy typing away on a 15 or 20-year old computer? If your answer is "No," then believe me when I tell you: you don't want an automated subway system in New York.
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Old 11-09-2011, 11:05 AM
 
119 posts, read 248,844 times
Reputation: 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by cottMAN98405cc View Post
computer based trains is here and is coming but alot of people reject the idea of computerized trains due to safety and a bunch of various reasons

I think the L and the 7 trains is the test line for the cbtc (something like that) trains
Communications-based train control (CBTC) doesn't actually get rid of conductors or drivers--it's a more advanced signaling system that allows trains to be run closer together than the older block signals.

If anything, the MTA is trying their hardest to eliminate conductors, not drivers.
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Old 11-09-2011, 12:26 PM
 
41 posts, read 190,077 times
Reputation: 25
Some things that may or may not be realistic:
-Contactless smart cards instead of the decrepit card swipes
-SUICIDE/GUARD DOORS AT ALL STATIONS. It not only decreases frequency of jumpers but also means that stations could be air-conditioned.
-Maybe ban eating food or drink while on the metro. Hong Kong's metro and I believe DC's as well have this rule and are much cleaner than NYC's
-Open some shops in each station. Maybe just a hudson news or 7-11
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Old 11-09-2011, 07:41 PM
 
Location: Harlem, NY
7,861 posts, read 7,751,133 times
Reputation: 4107
it was a bad idea for the MTA to remove station agents as well. they need to restore those jobs, if something happens, and people just are standing there in shock, a station agent will summon the correct authorties to address the issue.
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