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Old 03-03-2008, 12:57 PM
 
Location: Mott Haven
2,978 posts, read 3,988,203 times
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Ogden...Hispanic was not used in the phrase you pasted into your comment...but I get your point. Clearly Hispanic refers to EVERYONE that is from Latin America. However, the .005% of the population that are Ukranian from Paraguay, or Bukhari Jew Bolivians, or the Bund members are NOT representative of the Hispanic population of Latin America in general. Therefore, let's not have a discussion about Hispanics or Latin Americans based on the .005% EXCEPTIONS to the population, because that would be pointless. We can have an equally pointless discussion about the .01% of Americans that are billionaires, but that would not be representative of the US population. Agreed?
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Old 03-03-2008, 03:38 PM
 
113 posts, read 382,657 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Guywithacause View Post
Ogden...Hispanic was not used in the phrase you pasted into your comment...but I get your point. Clearly Hispanic refers to EVERYONE that is from Latin America. However, the .005% of the population that are Ukranian from Paraguay, or Bukhari Jew Bolivians, or the Bund members are NOT representative of the Hispanic population of Latin America in general. Therefore, let's not have a discussion about Hispanics or Latin Americans based on the .005% EXCEPTIONS to the population, because that would be pointless. We can have an equally pointless discussion about the .01% of Americans that are billionaires, but that would not be representative of the US population. Agreed?
Guy, as someone with more family on the island than in NY I, PERSONALLY, think the term Hispanic is pointless. Albizu Campos was very specific about the challenges that confront us within the Puerto Rican context and we are only ignoring those challenges if we allow ourselves to be subsumed into a false "Latino" construct. You can say that the groups I mentioned are an exception but tell me where the national "Latino" agenda is anything but a Chicano agenda.
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Old 03-03-2008, 03:53 PM
 
Location: Mott Haven
2,978 posts, read 3,988,203 times
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Whether you have more family on the island or not does not lend you any more credibility or make you more "right." Not sure why that was even brought up. I understand that you personally believe the term Hispanic is pointless...that's cool. I am well aware of all the races and cultures that came together to form the PR, as well as the immense social, economic, political, and societal challenges we faced, are facing, and will face going forward.

I do not believe, however, the term Hispanic or Latino, unfairly categorizes us, nor does it work to exclude the many races that make up PR. Yes there are many races and cultures...but there is the singular Spanish/Caribbean culture that binds us all and makes us unique..and this is where the term Hispanic/Latino tried to fill the void of identification that truly describes us.
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Old 03-03-2008, 04:17 PM
 
113 posts, read 382,657 times
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Originally Posted by Guywithacause View Post
Whether you have more family on the island or not does not lend you any more credibility or make you more "right." Not sure why that was even brought up. I understand that you personally believe the term Hispanic is pointless...that's cool. I am well aware of all the races and cultures that came together to form the PR, as well as the immense social, economic, political, and societal challenges we faced, are facing, and will face going forward.

I do not believe, however, the term Hispanic or Latino, unfairly categorizes us, nor does it work to exclude the many races that make up PR. Yes there are many races and cultures...but there is the singular Spanish/Caribbean culture that binds us all and makes us unique..and this is where the term Hispanic/Latino tried to fill the void of identification that truly describes us.
Guy, if the "Latino" construct were phrased as such I would have less issue with it. Insofar, as Puerto Ricans, Cubans, Dominicans and Panamians share a Hispanic culture which binds ethnically and racially diverse nations and those nations share a legacy of US military occupation we are Latino.

And under those circumstances we might see some real attention paid to the concerns of earnest Latin Americans which go way beyond Chicanos seeking Reconquista!
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Old 03-03-2008, 05:40 PM
 
205 posts, read 506,841 times
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Originally Posted by Guywithacause View Post
Agreed Supermario...this is a minor change...and the reality is they are being replaced by South Americans of all sorts, especially Mexicans. It should be noted however that Mexicans are a very transient and follow the work. As the construction work has slowed, as it has in many areas, they may move to other areas in the country...who knows. The last 5 years has seen a boon in construction as well as the Mexican population...so we shall see how this trend moves as the work has slowed dramatically.
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Originally Posted by SuperMario View Post
There's still PLENTY of Puerto Ricans and Dominicans to go around. Last time I checked these two groups made up 24 and 20 percent respectively in terms of the Bronx's population.

Mexicans are the next big group. Bank on it.
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Originally Posted by Guywithacause View Post
Lol..everybody is not gone...its just a SMALL change that MAY be indicative of things to come...who knows.
lol. okay. your right though. everything is in cycles here. still debating where to settle. pelham pkwy/morris park/. is there any hispanic/latino/spanish scene in whiteplains?? im getting older and i might want a diff way of living later on. i dunno
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Old 03-04-2008, 07:13 AM
 
Location: Mott Haven
2,978 posts, read 3,988,203 times
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Ogden I understand the Chicano agenda of "la Raza" and their extremism....which unfortunately becomes synonymous with Latino's....nonetheless...I understand why the term Hispanic/Latino are used by so many..it does accentuate our Spanish/Carribeannes versus just being anyone, from anywhere, with no real common language, culture, history, or beliefs.

SilverBack...there is a Hispanic scene ...but it is more so Latin American/Mexican from what I can tell...then again I know very little about the area.
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Old 03-04-2008, 08:19 AM
 
113 posts, read 382,657 times
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Originally Posted by Guywithacause View Post
I understand why the term Hispanic/Latino are used by so many..it does accentuate our Spanish/Carribeannes versus just being anyone, from anywhere, with no real common language, culture, history, or beliefs.
You obviously don't or you obviously ignored the part whereby I addressed acceptance of a Puerto Rican, Cuban, Dominican, Panamanian "Latino" construct as opposed to the current supra-Chicano definition.

But to suggest lazy acceptance of the term as so defined would be akin to telling a Korean American to accept the a Nisei centric Asian American construct while ignoring the historical animus btw Japan and Korea.
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Old 03-04-2008, 09:14 AM
 
Location: Mott Haven
2,978 posts, read 3,988,203 times
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Okay Ogden...since you are averse to using Hispanic/Latino due to your belief that those terms have either been hijacked or exploited by the pro-Chicano extremists, what term would you use to identify those populations that are first and foremost Spanish Caribbean people of Cuba, DR, PR, and to a lesser extent Panama? They are clearly a group that is different from their Latin American mainland counterparts by race, and to a lesser extent culture and experiences.
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Old 03-04-2008, 11:18 AM
 
113 posts, read 382,657 times
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Originally Posted by Guywithacause View Post
Okay Ogden...since you are averse to using Hispanic/Latino due to your belief that those terms have either been hijacked or exploited by the pro-Chicano extremists
It's not "my belief" but the belief of many. When I hear the pundits say that 80 percent of the eponymous "Latino" vote considers immigration to be of primary concern at the same time that the Pew Center tells us that roughly upwards of 75 percent of Latinos are Chicano then I think it flies in the face of reason to suggest otherwise. Puerto Ricans, in the Bronx, Baltimore, Philly and Chicago, next to African-Americans have been victims of predatory lending, government imported drugs, gun related, violent crime and the genocidal motives of Planned Parenthood

Quote:
Originally Posted by Guywithacause View Post
what term would you use to identify those populations that are first and foremost Spanish Caribbean people of Cuba, DR, PR, and to a lesser extent Panama? They are clearly a group that is different from their Latin American mainland counterparts by race, and to a lesser extent culture and experiences.
How about West Indian? I think we need to deal in the reality of today and not the culture of the past. While we share a common tongue with Chicanos the challenges facing Puerto Rico, Cuba and the DR are more like those confronting Antigua, Jamaica and Trinidad. And by the realities of today I mean Independence or Statehood for Puerto Rico, democracy for Cuba and transparency for the Domincan Republic.
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Old 03-04-2008, 11:20 AM
 
113 posts, read 382,657 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ogden Assassin View Post
It's not "my belief" but the belief of many. When I hear the pundits say that 80 percent of the eponymous "Latino" vote considers immigration to be of primary concern at the same time that the Pew Center tells us that roughly upwards of 75 percent of Latinos are Chicano then I think it flies in the face of reason to suggest otherwise. Puerto Ricans, in the Bronx, Baltimore, Philly and Chicago, next to African-Americans have been victims of predatory lending, government imported drugs, gun related, violent crime and the genocidal motives of Planned Parenthood



How about West Indian? I think we need to deal in the reality of today and not the culture of the past. While we share a common tongue with Chicanos the challenges facing Puerto Rico, Cuba and the DR are more like those confronting Antigua, Jamaica and Trinidad. And by the realities of today I mean Independence or Statehood for Puerto Rico, democracy for Cuba and transparency for the Domincan Republic.
Aand mind you if you study the links between Albizu Campos and Marcus Garvey you will see that while such connections may be outside the mainstream they are not outside of the mainstream.
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