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And, regardless what other countries may do, up until the last decade or two, it was my impression that America prided itself on being "freer" than most other places. Being required to carry ID always makes me think of WWII Nazi movies.
That ended on 9/11/01. Now it's "Papiere bitte!" and nobody blinks an eye. They can search you at subway stations, they can search you on the street, they can search you in apartment buildings, they can arrest you for trivial offenses and non-offenses (whether you did them or not, the cops can just make stuff up), and the whole system and all the "good people" back them up. The defense attorneys tell you not to bother and the judge tells you you're lucky the other judge wasn't there or you'd be going to Rikers. Yeah, it's all out of control.
Thanks, Henna. I had read that story about the student, and I was horrified. That's another example that led to my wondering if we're in a period when cops are going overboard.
And I, too, have wondered about what information you're required to give. I don't even know if you're actually required to give your name. And, regardless what other countries may do, up until the last decade or two, it was my impression that America prided itself on being "freer" than most other places. Being required to carry ID always makes me think of WWII Nazi movies.
I agree but I think we will have a national identity card in the next decade or so.
Why is it perceived as being so difficult to just simply answer a question which a cop asks you? How hard is that? The PA cop was not asking him to father her first-born child. She was asking him what country he came from. Why are you all acting like he was being lined up for water-boarding?
This is nothing new in NY. It's been going on since the 19th century. Don't give a cop a hard time, and you'll live long and prosper. If you want to get up on your high horse of human rights, make sure you cling tight to the Constitution, cause you are SURE gonna have a wild ride on that bucking horse. Seriously people - why create situations for yourself?
Why is it perceived as being so difficult to just simply answer a question which a cop asks you? How hard is that? The PA cop was not asking him to father her first-born child. She was asking him what country he came from. Why are you all acting like he was being lined up for water-boarding?
This is nothing new in NY. It's been going on since the 19th century. Don't give a cop a hard time, and you'll live long and prosper. If you want to get up on your high horse of human rights, make sure you cling tight to the Constitution, cause you are SURE gonna have a wild ride on that bucking horse. Seriously people - why create situations for yourself?
This guy did not create a situation for himself. He looked at a heavily tattooed person and the police came after him.
If I didn't do anything wrong and the police started coming after me, I wouldn't be answering any extraneous questions either.
This guy did not create a situation for himself. He looked at a heavily tattooed person and the police came after him.
If I didn't do anything wrong and the police started coming after me, I wouldn't be answering any extraneous questions either.
No, that's not what happened. According to the article:
She asked him what he was staring at, he said, and ultimately told him to leave the car. He didn’t want to. She threatened to call the police. Overhearing this, the conductor summoned the Port Authority police, and three officers arrived.
After speaking to the woman, an officer told Mr. Dittrich there would be no charges, he said, but requested identification. He told her he did not want to give it. She told him, he said, that he would be charged with obstruction. He gave his name and address. Then she asked what country he was from. He said he did not have to say. When she insisted and he insisted, he was taken to the police station in handcuffs and given a summons.
It accuses him of disorderly conduct “by causing public inconvenience and annoyance and refusing to provide pedigree info.”
So basically, he was staring at the blue tattooed woman. SHE took exception (as one would - unless you're looking for trouble on public transit, I wouldn't recommend staring at anyone). SHE started a scene. The conductor called the PA. Was it odd that the PA cop asked for his country of origin? Yeah - I'll give you that. But as I said in my post above, just answer what a cop asks you, keep your attitude to a minimum and everything will return to normal. He wanted to play a game of "who'll blink first". I will guarantee that the house (i.e. the cops) will ALWAYS come out the winner on this. Really - this is not rocket science or some new sort of enforcement. It has always been thus.
Why is it perceived as being so difficult to just simply answer a question which a cop asks you? How hard is that?
Because this is the United States of America, contrary to popular opinion. We're not supposed to have to lick the boots of authority or suffer the consequences. If a cop asks us some irrelevant question, we have the absolute right to tell him it's none of his business. You, on the other hand, are one of those "good people" who are part of the problem. You don't see any value in freedom in and of itself, of refusing to submit because submission is not required. You see that submission is easier, and conclude from that that the person not submitting is not only foolish but actually AT FAULT.
1) The gentleman was not disorderly in any way.
2) The question of what country he was born in was not relevant to the question of whether or not he was being disorderly.
3) No law compelled him to answer a question about his national origin.
4) Therefore, the cop arrested him unlawfully, in violation of 18 USC 242
5) The prosecutor knows all this, and STILL wants him to suffer jail time.
And your answer to this outrage is "well, if he'd just answered the question this never wouldda happened"? Bah.
Because this is the United States of America, contrary to popular opinion. We're not supposed to have to lick the boots of authority or suffer the consequences. If a cop asks us some irrelevant question, we have the absolute right to tell him it's none of his business. You, on the other hand, are one of those "good people" who are part of the problem. You don't see any value in freedom in and of itself, of refusing to submit because submission is not required. You see that submission is easier, and conclude from that that the person not submitting is not only foolish but actually AT FAULT.
1) The gentleman was not disorderly in any way.
2) The question of what country he was born in was not relevant to the question of whether or not he was being disorderly.
3) No law compelled him to answer a question about his national origin.
4) Therefore, the cop arrested him unlawfully, in violation of 18 USC 242
5) The prosecutor knows all this, and STILL wants him to suffer jail time.
And your answer to this outrage is "well, if he'd just answered the question this never wouldda happened"? Bah.
I have a thick southern accent because of all the time i have spent in the south from days in the military and working down there for my company .
I have gotten the question of where are you from in the states as the officer who was doing the bag seach heard me speak to him or her a when i have the socalled radom bag seach at the diff places i have it done at when going into the subway entances and most of the officer's where like cool and enjoy your time in the city .
But i have had the chance incounter with the one officer who was not the socalled best of the best that some areas seam to have in there areas of partol and they seam to be going through the socalled black glove phase of law enforcement .
Remember the pro-American movies in the 50's where the Nazis on the train would ask "Are your papers in order?"
Back then the audience was able to recognize a police state when they saw it's signposts.
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