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me and my husband have moved out of our previous apartment (this is all in NYC). It was a family owned brownstone, which we lived on the lower level (i.e. a level above the basement).
Once we moved all of our stuff out of the apartment ( note: we still paid last month rent and should have still been legally allowed in the apartment until the end of Nov.) the landlord is saying that we were negligent and caused water damage to the basement and by a back window sill, by leaving it open during rain. We have lived in the apt for over a year and this has never been an issue. There were no pools of water...NOTHING to show damage. Once the landlord said water was going into the basement, we kept the window closed for the rest of the summer. The issue was never addressed again.
Once my husband alerted me that he was trying to charge us for something that I believe is a structure issue (brownstone really old), I told him to meet me at the apt, so we can go back and take pictures that same day. Basically the landlord bolted the door so we cannot go back in. We called the police and called the landlord to open the door to no avail. We went back another time - still was not able to get in (keep in mind we paid til the end of Nov.).
So basically to cut a long story short, here are the facts:
1.)Landlord said damage happened during the weekend of hurricane Irene (which PS wasn't that crazy where we lived in the city - lots of wind). He did not tell us we had to keep the window closed (verbally) until after the weekend. Also, he did not let us know that there was "damage" in the basement until AFTER we moved out in Nov even though supposed damage happened in Aug.
2.)We were locked out of the apartment and was not able to enter back into premises (to take pics), even though paid til end of month (Nov). So basically illegally evicted.
3.) When we actually met up with the owner (landlords mother - lives upstate) and entered back in apt. There was no visible damage upstairs in the apt and they said "all the damage is in the basement" - we do NOT rent the basement and have never been down there. To make peace, we agreed that they would itemize everything and send us back our deposit w/in 30 days and if we felt the rest was worth going to court over we would do so.
3.) 30 days have passed we called the owner and she said she will send half our deposit in the mail ($1300 - we paid a 2 months security for a total of $2600) and once her son/sketchy landlord itemizes everything she will send us the rest of the deposit (minus itemized bill).
Note: the brownstone was very old and there were MANY MANY things the son was supposed to fix that were never done. So doubt he will do it anytime soon...
questions: 1.) Can they really with hold money for the basement? lived there over a year, never was told to keep the back window shut, did not see any visible puddles or water flowing to cause damage. Also no AC in house. Gets EXTREMELY hot during some days in the summer.
2.) Can they rent out the apartment before the 'damage' has been fixed? they were showing the place to renters and believe they have rented the place already.
3.) what is reasonable time to return deposit? After 60 days do they forfeit being able to take money out of our deposit for damages?
It sounds like you are dealing with peasantsand being too nice. Have a lawyer send them a letter demanding an accounting of alleged damage and return of the depositimmediately. It wont cost much and will tell them the game is up. They probably do this to every tenant.
I don't know that you need an attorney. Most States have a residential landlord-tenant act that prescribes procedures and timelines. Typically a landlord has some time to examine the property when you vacate (just as you did when you occupied). Then they need to return your deposit or send you an itemized list explaining why they are withholding any funds. Many times, if they do not do so within the prescribed time period THEY are liable for damages. See if you can find the applicable laws. Write a letter citing your request for return of your full security deposit within the prescribed time limits. IF he presents you with a list of withholds-THEN I would say see a lawyer. Note, if you contributed to damage and did not take reasonable actions to (mitigate) notify or correct the damage you may be responsible for damages; i.e., if you live upstairs and let your bathtub overflow and the ceiling was damaged.
1. And now we know why it is wise for a tenant to use his security deposit as his final rent. Leaving a landlord in possession of one's funds and HOPING he will be honest is often a good way to find out that he is NOT. Let the LANDLORD sue YOU instead of the other way 'round.
2. Always close windows in the event of an approaching hurricane or tsunami. But you really cannot be responsible for closing a window in an area you are not renting. If it goes to court the landlord's "water damage" argument will go up in smoke.
3.
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what is reasonable time to return deposit?
Usually considered 30-60 days.
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After 60 days do they forfeit being able to take money out of our deposit for damages?
Not really applicable becasue after 60 days they can always say they withheld it ALL for damages. BUT absent some sort of itemized notification you can sue for treble the amount owed.
Of interest:
[LEFT][SIZE=1]
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[/SIZE]
[SIZE=1][SIZE=1]Other than filing a claim in small claims court you could also contact the New York State Department of Law, headed by the Attorney General. They accept tenant complaints involving security deposits. After a tenant files a complaint, the Attorney General will contact the landlord, providing him/her with the opportunity to reply. The Attorney General's approach is to mediate a resolution by informing the landlord of the obligations of the law and the Attorney General's authority to enforce the law. A landlord who has no damage claim against a former tenant, and who is merely trying to keep the deposit, may respond to this pressure. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=1]The success of either of these strategies depends, of course, on the temperament of the landlord and the amount of documentation you have. Needless to say, if the landlord claims $900 for actual damages to the apartment, and can document these damages, and your rent is $900 or less, he/she can rightfully claim the security deposit. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=1]Unlawfully withholding a security deposit or collecting excess security may be considered an unlawful overcharge for rent regulated tenants. If deliberate, aggrieved tenants may seek treble damages in an overcharge proceeding. You can reach the Attorney General at 212-416-8000. [/SIZE]
i get both last months rent and security deposit. in my lease i tell them if they try to live off the security deposit i will start eviction preceedings and hold them responsible for all costs of legal fees and damages even if they are out by the time it goes to court .
they generally will not go any further and pay the rent. i will not allow them to leave me holding nothing when they move out.been there ,done that and i will do my best to make sure im never in that situation again.
2. Always close windows in the event of an approaching hurricane or tsunami. But you really cannot be responsible for closing a window in an area you are not renting. If it goes to court the landlord's "water damage" argument will go up in smoke.
- We've had more rain on other weekends other than the hurricane irene weekend and closing our window has never been an issue. OF COURSE if we saw substantial amounts of water coming in we would have closed the window. The apartment gets VERY hot and stuffy. It was in august and we also had people over.
Also, just to clarify, the window was in our apartment. The landlord claimed water seeped between the cracks in the window sill basically and went down into the basement. I believe that's a structural issue with the brownstone and no way could we have known and therefore have been negligible. I mean they didn't even know that would happen either.
Thanks for the replies! Definitely a sketchy situation. especially since he knew about the 'damage' in the basement from august and did not say anything until it was time for us to move out. I suspect if we did not move out, he still would not have said anything until we eventually did. I hope that we will prevail, if we do have to go to small claims court.
mathjak107 is a shrewd landlord. The security deposit is the security deposit and the rent is the rent. You should not plan on not paying your last month's rent by using your security deposit unless you are planning on facing (and losing) a court decision Additionally, if the water damage was not caused by negligence on your part (window open) but by water leaking between the window and the structure you should prevail in any court. Again, state your case firmly and demand their return of your deposit. I am not familiar with the NY court system however, I suspect this type of matter would be handled in a justice court. You also got some great advice about contacting the Attorney General.
You admit that the Ll spoke to you about the issue. So, obviously there must have been some leakage, apparently due to rain. Otherwise, why did the LL mention it to you in the first place?
Further, you admit to attempting to comply, but that it is hot in the Summer. The implication being that at some point after being warned you, again, had the window open.
So, the question as to whether you have left the window open, you've admitted too.
The question is whether you're leaving the window open was negligent and/or unreasonable?
Also, whether you and/or the LL is responsible for any damage as a result? Given the fact that the Ll was aware of the 'rain' issue, yet took no action, other than advising you to keep the window closed.
You could sue in Small Claims for the full return of your security. The Ll w/h to prove you were negligent in opening the window during hot humid rainy days/hights. You can claim that the LL was aware and took no action, such as installing rain guards, etc.
If the Ll claims that the damage was as of that first instance, when he so advised, again he w/h to prove that your action, in opening the window was negligent and/or unreasonable.
Your defense is that you had no prior knowledge and that the LL did have prior knowledge and/or should have had prior knowledge, and should have taken preventative action, but did not, which constitutes negligence on the part of the LL. Consequently you are not liable for any damages as a result there of.
There it is in a nunutshell.
I don't recall what the legal time period is for the LL to return the security deposit. Look it up. In any event, I'd wait until that period expires, and for the itemization, the sue. I'd sue for the legal limit, treble damages, but given there is 'cause'one for dispute, I w/n expect treble damages. I would expect the return of the full security, bsed on the prior knowledge defense.
i get both last months rent and security deposit. in my lease i tell them if they try to live off the security deposit i will start eviction preceedings and hold them responsible for all costs of legal fees and damages even if they are out by the time it goes to court .
they generally will not go any further and pay the rent. i will not allow them to leave me holding nothing when they move out.been there ,done that and i will do my best to make sure im never in that situation again.
Thank you!
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To any and all,
Listening to the idiots in this forum who like to play at lawyering spouting absolute nonsense wil cost you money, time and trouble.
A professional LL will do just as Mathjak has stated, and you WILL be liable for the LL's cost and fees incurred as the result of your compelling the Ll to bring suit.
The "let them sue me attitude" is one of dimwittedness! A person talking about what they don't know and haven't experienced. Spouting nonsense.
****
That said, including myself, many people do live out their security. I advise you get permission in advance. If you don't and the LL objects and/or request that the last month's rent be paid, then pay.
mathjak107 is a shrewd landlord. The security deposit is the security deposit and the rent is the rent. You should not plan on not paying your last month's rent by using your security deposit unless you are planning on facing (and losing) a court decision Additionally, if the water damage was not caused by negligence on your part (window open) but by water leaking between the window and the structure you should prevail in any court. Again, state your case firmly and demand their return of your deposit. I am not familiar with the NY court system however, I suspect this type of matter would be handled in a justice court. You also got some great advice about contacting the Attorney General.
legaly and tax wise the security deposit and last months rent are very different.
last months rent is actually a pre-payment and that money is mine right from day 1. i have to declare it as income in the year i get it and it goes in my bank account..
the security deposit is not mine and is not income. it stays in a seperate account isolated from my own funds.
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