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All the negatives you mentioned about poor neighbourhoods - trash, people sitting on stoops, graffiti, etc. - are things I've seen in even the most gentrified New York neighbourhoods. It just happens when people live so densely packed together. And while I don't like trash and dog refuse, some of the other things you mentioned, like people hanging out outside on stoops, is not a problem for most people. However, when older people see young kids or minorities hanging out, they think TROUBLE. Anyways, it's a moot point. The Bronx will never gentrify - way too many housing projects, group homes, homeless shelters, halfway houses, and other domiciles of the down and out. The City of New York put all that stuff there when the Bronx was considered a hole, but now the land is valuable and people want to gentrify it....not gonna happen.
Pietrang:
I enjoyed reading your post. I understand that decline and renewal is a natural cycle, but the problem with New York is that the poor and middle class are running out of places to to go. It's the same here in Toronto. Pretty soon the term 'inner city' will mean wealthy and desireable, and 'suburbs' will mean poor and undesirable.
Last edited by bmwguydc; 02-16-2013 at 06:37 PM..
Reason: Inappropraite language
Poor people did not ruin the Bronx. What ruined the Bronx and similar places is when Section 8 and other government programs easily took people off the street and put them into apartments.
That's when you got people pissing and yes, crapping in hallways. What working person would come home and act like this kind of animal?
With that said, little by little the Bronx is gentrifying, and gentrification doesn't just mean whites moving in. You have a lot of working blacks and hispanics (many of whom are immigrants) who make the Bronx their home. They open up businesses, etc. That in and of itself is gentrification. There are new developments in parts of the South Bronx, and new people moving in certain areas.
The housing projects are mainly concentrated in the South Bronx. Many homes and apartments in the North Bronx have parking, so the people who live there make enough money to drive cars.
Oh, the housing projects are not necessarily a permanent thing. The city is leasing off housing projects land. They could demolish them, like Chicago or they could buy the people out and convert them to co ops or private housing.
All the negatives you mentioned about poor neighbourhoods - trash, people sitting on stoops, graffiti, etc. - are things I've seen in even the most gentrified New York neighbourhoods. It just happens when people live so densely packed together.
If you need a challenge, try convincing the perpetrators that this is true.
This was my approach, and I also pointed out that given the changes in Harlem, people who embrace anti-social behaviors would be removed.
This process has already begun. Working people just do not want to deal with it.
Truthfully some of the issues HilltopJay talk about are also a matter of policing. Cameras in lobbys and hallways can certain cut down on certain anti social behaviors in buildings as if one gets busted on camera peeing in the hallway, then you're busted.
Better police patrolling can help cut down on graffiti, vandalism, dog poop, etc.
Notice the big change in areas like Midtown West and Hells Kitchen, areas the city bothered to send cops to clean up or drive out certain elements.
So if certain things are going on in certain areas, petition city hall to more adequately enforce laws. Once people realize they will get fine or ticketed for certain offenses, they are less likely to commit them.
Truthfully some of the issues HilltopJay talk about are also a matter of policing. Cameras in lobbys and hallways can certain cut down on certain anti social behaviors in buildings as if one gets busted on camera peeing in the hallway, then you're busted.
Better police patrolling can help cut down on graffiti, vandalism, dog poop, etc.
The truth, around here ...? The police are under attack 24/7 for anything they try to do to improve the quality of life. An example: There is a gang of unsupervised teenagers who have taken up residence, beginning around 7 PM on any evening that is not freezing or with precipitation, on the cars of residents. They hang out, break things on the cars, eat, litter, smoke, whatever. They also hang out on the stoops of adjacent buildings - where they do not live. It is commonly known that the adults here and there among them are selling drugs.
Residents call the police constantly. They do come. A screeching then ensues. They are being targeted because they are black. And so on. "We" can't assemble or "they harass us."
One day, end of the summer, one kid said to the police who had been called by a resident who had been unable to move them from his car, "They just gotta see a black man locked up." Do be aware that the resident who called the police is also black. I happened to be there, and I replied,"No ... if indeed you do get 'locked up,' it will be because you were damaging someone's property." He was outraged. No understanding; nothing. Nothing at all.
But, your point about Hell's Kitchen is well taken. Once the balance in a given neighborhood shifts to reflect a non-ghetto majority, things become easier regarding the unfortunate need to enforce a certain quality of life. Most everyone around here is waiting for that.
And I blame the parents more than poor policing. Some of these teenagers are below the age when they can be arrested. They point this out, by the way. They know how to work the system.
The truth, around here ...? The police are under attack 24/7 for anything they try to do to improve the quality of life.
The police are under attack. Very true indeed. Point in case is the Stop & Frisk program which works very well but LIBERALS denounce it because it targets minorities. FOH!!! But if you look at the crime stats, all the HOT SPOTS are predominately in "minority neighborhoods. What do you expect? It's common sense yet these fcking LIBERALS try to push their agenda upon us by pulling the race card to make their argument stick. Dirty SOBs!
Last edited by bmwguydc; 02-16-2013 at 06:42 PM..
Reason: Language
Stop and frisk works very well until the police move into your neighbourhood and start doing it to you. Besides, the Constitution provides protection against unlawful search and seizure. Stop & Frisk is the epitome of an unreasonable search, and is therefore unconstitutional. It's before the courts right now and will hopefully be outlawed. But I guess that's a constitutional amendment you're willing to sacrifice. But try making gun laws a little stricter and I bet you're frothing at the mouth.
The police are under attack. Very true indeed. Point in case is the Stop & Frisk program which works very well but LIBERALS denounce it because it targets minorities. FOH!!! But if you look at the crime stats, all the HOT SPOTS are predominately in "minority neighborhoods. What do you expect? It's common sense yet these fcking LIBERALS try to push their agenda upon us by pulling the race card to make their argument stick. Dirty SOBs!
Devil's advocate: There is likely truth to some of the anti-NYPD allegations. It is another situation where everyone is wrong, potentially.
The liberals are often lawyers and/or neo-liberals - vastly worse than liberals, frankly. The lawyers would like to build careers, and they do so by proving legal points at some remove from actual, lived, reality. The neo-liberals help out because they are usually afraid of black people but will not admit it. Always an opportunity to prove, "I am not a racist !" Either that or they are consuming what we call "ghetto primitivism."
Forgot to add - such as the point of view above !
Last edited by bmwguydc; 02-16-2013 at 06:42 PM..
Reason: Edited quoted text
The U.S. has a Constitution. It says what it says. Many of the tactics used by the NYPD are plainly unconstitutional, and both state and federal courts are beginning to say so. Complaining about "liberals" is beside the point.
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