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Yes, America was founded by immigrants (including my grandparents) but these earlier immigrants learned English and wanted to quickly assimilate into American culture while, of course, retaining certain aspects of their own
People keep saying that earlier immigrants wanted to assimilate and learn English quickly but I don't think that is as true as you would like to believe. The major cities all had areas where particular ethnicities or nationalities could live with there own kind and NOT assimilate. Italian, Irish, Polish, Chinese, Cuban, etc. After a couple generations it occurred naturally for the most part. However, you can still go to a Little Saigon or Chinatown and find US citizens that are much more comfortable speaking in Chinese or Vietnamese or whatever.
People in the US have always complained about immigrants and will probably always complain about immigrants. Immigrants will take their time to assimilate and there isn't much you can do to speed that up.
I disagree, it was more sink or swim back in the day. Plus part of your post doesn't make any sense. For example when you said, you can still go to Little Saigon? Vietnamese immmigration to the USA didn't even really pick up until the early 1970s! So thats not the best example. Also most Chinese people leave Chinatown after a generation. You would be hard pressed to find any multi-generational families living in Chinatown in NYC. I believe the same thing would apply out on the west coast. Usually new immigrants move to these ethnic neighborhoods. After they or their children have learned to adapt to American culture and speak English they, for the most part, leave their ethnic ghetto.
The problem we're seeing, and this is mostly in the Southwest down along the border in Texas, California, Arizona, but also in South Florida (Miami specifically) is that lots of recent hispanic immigrants aren't learning or using English and aren't stopping their use of Spanish.
Have you been to Miami recently or down along the border in the Southwest? In many areas of Miami you'd be hard pressed to find a person who can speak English fluently. Same thing applies in many border towns in Texas and Arizona that I have been to.
This is a problem that is only going to grow with time if the government doesn't deal with.
In NYC though, its not such a big deal. If the kid of an immigrant doesn't learn how to speak some ammount of English they'll just be branded as a FOB and treated like a social pariah. There is much more of a societal pressure to learn English around here so that you can advance, not only economically but also socially.
The problem with the city though is that there is a non-stop flow of immigrants, so it seems like nobody is ever assimilating or speaking English because there are constant number of FOBs who are arriving and can't speak the language. This is a Federal issue though and as of yet the Feds don't seem interested in dealing with it seriously.
Quote:
Originally Posted by WeeMadArthur
People keep saying that earlier immigrants wanted to assimilate and learn English quickly but I don't think that is as true as you would like to believe. The major cities all had areas where particular ethnicities or nationalities could live with there own kind and NOT assimilate. Italian, Irish, Polish, Chinese, Cuban, etc. After a couple generations it occurred naturally for the most part. However, you can still go to a Little Saigon or Chinatown and find US citizens that are much more comfortable speaking in Chinese or Vietnamese or whatever.
People in the US have always complained about immigrants and will probably always complain about immigrants. Immigrants will take their time to assimilate and there isn't much you can do to speed that up.
I think the Little Saigon is a good example because it is recent. The first generation immigrants stay in the area and speak mostly Vietnamese. The next generations branch out and assimilate more. Thats my point. You have to give time. Maybe the Hispanic immigrants have had the time and aren't assimilating. Is that a problem? I don't know. To some people it is. To me... I don't really care. In 50 years maybe we'll all be a little more Hispanic. I'm not sure what is so terrible about that.
And to get back on topic -- I agree with StPete2Charlotte, your neighbors are douchebags.
I just realized this is the New York forum and not Immigration. Sorry for going off-topic. My experiences w/China Town and Little Saigon are all west coast so they may not apply to New York. I'm not really aware of all the issues you may have in New York with the different neighborhoods. Last time I was in New York I was about 8 years old.
Sorry!
Last edited by WeeMadArthur; 09-26-2007 at 06:01 PM..
Reason: Disclaimer about not realizing this was New York forum.
While I didn't mean to offend (were you the noisy neighbor that caused us so much misery?), your attitude just solidifies what I said in my original posting.
Are you West Indian or American? Where do your loyalties lie? Are you trying to assimiliate into American culture?
What??
Where do your loyalties lie?
Are you playing a board game? This is real life man. There is no such thing as loyalty in America because you never have to choose (Unless you're a secret spy!!). That's what makes this country great. You can represent your homeland AND America at the same time. Some people in this world are dumb. But it has absolutely nothing to do with the color of your skin or ethnicity. Just avoid dumb people or set up a neighborhood association and establish a friendship with your neighbors. Ozone Park is not only yours. It belongs to everyone.
Are Mexicans who are living along the border and not assimilating a problem? Yes! Why? Because Mexican people are taught, and many Mexican-Americans still believe, that the Southwest United States was basically stolen from them and rightfully belongs to them. (Say what you want about the Cubans in South Florida, but at least they don't have any revanchist ideas concerning Miami!) Add in the fact that many Mexicans aren't learning the language and a million are moving across the border every year which in turn reinforces ethnic ties.
This is what I'd call a Big F'ing Deal. I don't think Mexico is ever going to get our land, but 50 years down the road I could see some type of mini-Civil War play out over this issue. However my point is that it is completely unnecessary. If the government did its job, and watched the borders and made people learn English, then there wouldn't be this problem. Our government today is basically incompetent though, so I don't expect too much from them.
Quote:
Originally Posted by WeeMadArthur
I think the Little Saigon is a good example because it is recent. The first generation immigrants stay in the area and speak mostly Vietnamese. The next generations branch out and assimilate more. Thats my point. You have to give time. Maybe the Hispanic immigrants have had the time and aren't assimilating. Is that a problem? I don't know. To some people it is. To me... I don't really care. In 50 years maybe we'll all be a little more Hispanic. I'm not sure what is so terrible about that.
Are you playing a board game? This is real life man. There is no such thing as loyalty in America because you never have to choose (Unless you're a secret spy!!). That's what makes this country great. You can represent your homeland AND America at the same time.
"In the first place, we should insist that if the immigrant who comes here in good faith, becomes an American and assimilates himself to us, he shall be treated on an exact equality with everyone else for it is an outrage to discriminate against any such man because of creed, or birthplace, or origin. But this is predicated upon the person’s becoming in every facet an American, and nothing but an American… There can be no divided allegiance here. Any man who says he is an American, but something else also, isn’t an American at all. We have room for but one flag, the American flag… We have room for but one language here, and that is the English language… and we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a loyalty to the American people.”
—Theodore Roosevelt, 1907
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