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You can get a judgement for all sorts of things, and the same way the tenant can exploit the law for their own greed, so can the LL. The landlord has the option to sue as much as he likes, so much so to bankrupt the tenant with bogus lawsuits. And since he sounds like a douche...he just might. Litigation works both ways..and if that is the route they want to go...why shouldn't the LL also? I would.....let's see who goes bankrupt first..and lets throw in some claims of harassment, assault, get a restraining order. Oh the fun you can have with litigation and the legal system.
I'm neutral as far as this post goes.
But you still dont seem to understand what a judgement is. So please, before you throw this 'term' around please inform yourself. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judgment_(law)
Apparently the LANDLORDS here think the laws forbidding the collection of rent on illegal apartments is not fair to them.
Perhaps they should operate in some arena where there are no laws restricting their behavior? Hailti perhaps, Bangladesh?
Simple fact is that only one person knows the apartment is illegal, the landlord. When the tenant finds out this is the case he should be a good capitalist and take advantage of the law by stopping the payment of rent, especially when he concludes the place is "uninhabitable."
When a landlord operates as a greedy bastard it is called "the American way." When a tenant gets what he is owed, a rare occurrence, he is called rapacious.
It's not rocket science: a landlord collecting rent on an illegal apartment is ILLEGAL. A tenant stopping payment on such an apartment is LEGAL. Easy peasy.
Absent the ability to imprison such a landlord, some little recompense like 6 months rent penalty for his illegal behavior seems merely a slap on the wrist.
But how they WHINE over every lost penny.
If you were to buy a used car, you would not have it checked out 1st?
These transplants don't do their research.
They move in and say, "Isn't it great that all these cool bars are within walking distance to my new place?"
Now they find out its illegal and don't want to be reprimanded for not doing their homework.
Also, it's not a holdover case that's done for illegal apartments. It's called an ejectment case.
How do I know? I used to work for an L&T firm for 3.5 years.
Holdover cases are done when the landlord is suing for arrears and possession of the apartment. That's it. So it's impossible to do a holdover case on an illegal apartment because the landlord cannot re-possess something that is illegal to own. Physically it is still part of his/her property but they would not be able to rent it out.
Furthermore, when a holdover case is started, the landlord is instructed to stop taking any further rent from the tenant. This is done according to the date of the lease. For example let's say I was a tenant and my lease started March 1st. Come June, the LL wanted to start the holdover case against me. If I had already paid June rent, the LL would have to wait until July to start the holdover case. Therefore, you can't do a holdover case on an illegal apartment. What attorney in their right mind would tell the landlord to stop accepting rent that he/she should not have even been accepting in the first place.
You usually see holdover cases when the tenant is doing one of the things below:
Creating a nuisance to others in the bldg
Selling drugs or doing something else illegal in their apartment
Overcrowding/altering the apartment without consent, i.e. dividing rooms
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"The man who sleeps on the floor, can never fall out of bed." -Martin Lawrence
The OP is a kid. He/She learned a lesson the hard way. Most people in their early 20s don't know enough how to handle this type of thing, especially when things go wrong. If the OP is originally from out of town, that makes him even more naive. Next time, you'll know better and it would be helpful if a parent or other older family member goes with you when you have narrowed down your choices to a few places. Sometimes, a real estate salesperson will see a "kid," especially one new to the city or one who sounds naive and take advantage or give a hard sell. It can be overwhelming and intimidating when you are young.
When I was 21 and looking for my first place, sales people tried to take advantage. Nothing illegal, but they didn't tell me everything and I didn't always know all of the right things to ask. If I liked the place, I returned with my father who was a lawyer and he let them know that he was a lawyer. Their tune changed dramatically. Before I signed the lease, he had them rewrite practically half of it.
OP, make sure that all your communication is in writing. If you do anything over the phone, keep a record of the conversation and the date. I am pretty certain that you can recover the broker's fee. Write them a letter first and send it certified mail. If that doesn't get results, then you will have to go the court route.
[quote=SeventhFloor;23345771]Is this how adults operate??
If you were to buy a used car, you would not have it checked out 1st?
These transplants don't do their research.
Also, it's not a holdover case that's done for illegal apartments. It's called an ejectment case.How do I know? I used to work for an L&T firm for 3.5 years.
Holdover cases are done when the landlord is suing for arrears and possession of the apartment. That's it. So it's impossible to do a holdover case on an illegal apartment because the landlord cannot re-possess something that is illegal to own. Physically it is still part of his/her property but they would not be able to rent it out.
Therefore, you can't do a holdover case on an illegal apartment. What attorney in their right mind would tell the landlord to stop accepting rent that he/she should not have even been accepting in the first place.
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First, I'm not sure if you are referring to me, or the OP when you throw out the term trasnplant..but I can ASSURE you [i]am not a transplant. I was born and raised in NYC on the Lower East Side.
If I were going to BUY a used car of course I would make sure the car was ok, rather than take the previous owners word for it. But, If i am going to rent an apartment that LOOKS legal, and is shown to me by a BROKER, then I am going to assume it IS legal.
That being said, In my case, my LL KNOWS my apartment is illegal. However, He has filed his paperwork as if the apartment is legal. He filed for a holdover to recover the premises and to sue for use and occupancy? WHY? Perhaps because he does not want to state on the petition that the apartment is illegal. BASICALLY, he is LYING in his petition. (not surprising considering what a DOUCHE bag he is). I'm not sure if the landlord didn't inform his lawyers that the apartment was illegal, or if he proceeded this way because he thinks he is going to get away with it, in both instances, he proves himself to be a moron.
In the end, he will pay for his stupidity one way or another.
I got you mixed up with the original poster. please forgive me;
I would enver have moved into the apt that the OP described.
My apartment for all intents and purposes "looks" perfectly legal. The fact that a broker was showing it gave me no thought to think otherwise.
The irony of the situation is, had he fixed my apartment when the flooding started, (or had it never flooded to begin with) I would have continued to pay rent on time, and been none the wiser and would have renewed my lease again last month.
If he had just kept his mouth shut he would have avoided the problems he is now facing.
What kind of moron rents an illegal apartment and then is stupid enough to expose their fraud in court?
It's akin to the drug dealer that calls the cops when someone steals his stash.
I'm sure there are plenty of posts about illegal apartments in NYC but I'm so overwhelmed with my situation. I moved to New York a few months ago and rented a very tiny apartment (even tiny by Manhattan standards) because it was inexpensive, in a great area, and I didn't have to worry about finding a roommate over the internet. It's probably barely 80 square feet, no kitchen, no window (I have a skylight that doesn't open), no second exit, and I don't even have a real apartment number/address, I have my mail delivered to the office below. From what I've researched these are all indications of an illegal apartment. Some people have told me I'm entitled to sue for the money I've already paid for rent back because he legally should not be collecting rent on this place, and some have told me I can't and just have to accept my losses and move on. I also paid a brokers fee for this place and from what I know a broker should also not be listing an illegal apartment so should I be entitled to that back as well? I've seen information on the website for NYC housing NYC Housing Court and from what they've told me they have to go inspect it and declare it illegal. I don't want to report it yet because I don't have anywhere else to live at the moment. I just really have to get out of this place before my lease ends, the problem isn't necessarily the size but it gets extremely hot in here because there's no window or ventilation of any kind (like around 90 degrees some days...in the winter) and I'm terrified of a fire breaking out and I have no way of escaping. I guess my question is if I have any recourse to get any of my money back, even just my security deposit and if anyone has ever gone through something similar? I'm young in my twenties and all my family is across the country so I just am not quite sure how to handle this since I can't afford a lawyer. Also would I be able to represent myself in court if the law is on my side in this situation? Thanks so much if anyone has any advice.
not sure if i can take you and your post serious and or believe it... SORRY but you must have seen this and wondered these issues before you signed at the X
The OP is a kid. He/She learned a lesson the hard way. Most people in their early 20s don't know enough how to handle this type of thing, especially when things go wrong.
You're probably right about the OP, but the first question that came to my mind was, what kind of kid? When I was looking at apartments for the first time, the idea of accepting a windowless hole in the wall just because it was located in a good neighborhood--legal or otherwise--would never have occurred to me.
update on ny situation.. on March 29th my court date was postponed until May 4th. On May 4th my court date was postponed until May 24th. My lawyer drafted up a 3 page answer detailing eveything my LL did wrong. My LL's lawyer is pissed off at him because he lied to him and told him the apartment was legal, amongst other lies. However the landlords architect verfified that the apartment was in fact illegal. As of right now, my LL is pooping his pants and wants to settle. My lawyer however has chosen to "let him stew" before we decide on a settlement that I want. I have not paid any rent to my landlord since December 2011. I also contacted the agency that brokered my apartment and asked them to return my brokers fee for renting me an illegal apartment. The gentleman was very accomodating but told me he ad to wait until my case was settled before he could do anything, but told me to contact him as soon as it was over so he could help me.
I will post another update after my court date on May 24th.
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Holdover vs eviciton vs ejection
