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Old 02-16-2012, 07:35 PM
 
459 posts, read 647,450 times
Reputation: 550

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I don't live in NY, I was just looking online since there has been internal postings in my company's Manhattan office and I was curious.
I saw a posting for a 3 bedroom, 2 bath, 1000sqft condo in the corner of W 116th St and Lenox Ave near the subway station.

The price was only $309k and it sounds too good to be true. Am I missing something? How come this is still in the market? The listing says it's in an HDFC coop building. Does that make a huge difference?

Thanks in advance!
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Old 02-16-2012, 07:52 PM
 
334 posts, read 1,056,177 times
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It's low-income housing and the neighborhood is not the greatest. The million dollar coops are 2 miles away.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Housing...poration_(HDFC)
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Old 10-27-2012, 05:32 AM
 
1 posts, read 5,326 times
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Default could a french guy buy an HDFC apt ?

the title explain my question , could i if i am not an american , buy a hdfc apt ?

best regards

joel
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Old 10-27-2012, 06:58 AM
 
Location: London
1,584 posts, read 3,574,416 times
Reputation: 1335
Quote:
Originally Posted by joel bostaetter View Post
the title explain my question , could i if i am not an american , buy a hdfc apt ?

best regards

joel
Hopefully not.
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Old 10-27-2012, 08:27 AM
 
Location: Manhattan
24,720 posts, read 34,704,503 times
Reputation: 12240
Bulok,


There are tight income restictions on who can buy. Some are so tight it might seem impossilbe to make very little and yet afford $309K. That might explain why it's sitting on the market.

But I don't know much about HDFC, it's an area that seemed buried in arcane secrecy and not a little chicanery.

Talk to a lawyer who specializes in the area before committing to anything.
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Old 10-27-2012, 03:05 PM
 
26,588 posts, read 59,791,404 times
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Housing Development Fund Corp.

Bottom line, the city sells these buildings to either a group of owner-occupants who meet the income restrictions or to a non-profit community organization (Habitat, faith based/Civic groups, etc.) which will rent the units as income restricted affordable housing.

An individual may not purchase one directly from the city.

If there is one on the market, it is again restricted for sale to a low income owner-occupant and the owner is deed-restricted on the selling price which is a formula based on their original purchase price (limited-equity). Individuals may not own these properties as investments. Ownership and rentals are limited to US citizens and permanent residents.
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Old 10-27-2012, 05:38 PM
 
Location: NY,NY
2,896 posts, read 9,478,990 times
Reputation: 2070
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kefir King View Post
Bulok,


There are tight income restictions on who can buy. Some are so tight it might seem impossilbe to make very little and yet afford $309K. That might explain why it's sitting on the market.

But I don't know much about HDFC, it's an area that seemed buried in arcane secrecy and not a little chicanery.

Talk to a lawyer who specializes in the area before committing to anything.
There are NO lawyers which "specialize" in subsidized housing!! That's silly. People can't afford a real down payment on a real apartment, how can they afford a *real* attorney?

An attorney, who has delved into, as you put it, the "chicanery" of Federal/State/City regulations??? Where is the money in that? Fees for such work, effort and developed expertise would run in the neighborhood of $1500 to $2500, JUST to evaluate and advise.

So, your advice is unrealistic. Though, perhaps an attorney with a non profitt organization might have some experience.

An attorney is not what one needs. One simply needs to be *connected*, got a friend or relative which works for the agency? Know someone who as recently gone through the process? Got the time to go down to the agency and go diligently through their material? Then meet with someone at the agency to ask questions and get more info? Of course, this requires taking time off from work (which typically is a difficulty for low income people).

You know how people get these apartments? They know somebody, do all the above, then they LIE!!!

Make six figures and what a subsidized apartment/house? LIE! This is why knowing someone on the inside is necessary. They can show you how to manipulate the System to your advantage.

How else do you think these things are done? With so much *competition*? The luck of the draw? Nope.

Also, this subsidize crap is ALL **political**. Controlled by politicians and government sanctioned non profit agencies (like the no defunct "Acorn").

Counclmen, Assemblymen, Congressmen, on every level control this crap; along with connected "non profit" heads and personnel, as well as "agency" personnel.

Who gets the inside track on such apartments? Those connected in some way with those above. The purpose of the "chicanery" is to be a *barrier* against the UNconnected!

Who are the connected? Beyond family and friends, people wno **volunteer** for political campaigns and work diligently and hard. Year after year. They don't get pay or a job. What they do get is rewarded by the politicians with government handouts. Note those people *volunteering* on election day? Why do you think they do it? The meager compensation? How do you think they come to be volunteering?

A call is made and the office staffer of 'fill in the blank Politician' gets the inside track on an affordable, newly built doorman subsidized building. Maybe not just the staffer, but the staffer's daughter or friend. The politician's cousin or brother. So on and so on.....

In the best and most coveted buildings only a small percentage are "luck of the draw'. They are just for "show", apearance. Its government, which is just a Con!

The Federal programs are the least corrupt, the State is more so, and local/City programs are completely corrupt!

Transplants w/n have a clue of any of the above, and rightly so! It is and should remain a local "native" thing!
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Old 10-28-2012, 07:58 AM
 
Location: Manhattan
24,720 posts, read 34,704,503 times
Reputation: 12240
Quote:
By Coltrane:
There are NO lawyers which "specialize" in subsidized housing!! That's silly.
Take your pick:

Quote:
Housing Development Fund Corporations / Limited Equity Cooperatives

Barry Mallin, our principal attorney, participated in the development of Housing Development Fund Corporations (HDFCs) in the early 1980s. Created by the City of New York, HDFCs provided tenants in abandoned buildings the opportunity to own and operate their own apartment buildings. There are now more than 1,000 HDFCs throughout New York City. Our firm provides comprehensive legal counsel to these tenant-sponsored cooperatives
.

Quote:
If you have any questions about the letter or any other HDFC-related matter, please call me or Matthew Hall at 212-461-2338. Or, send an e-mail to dgoldstein@goldsteinhall.com or mhall@goldsteinhall.com.


Goldstein Hall’s Legal Interpretation of Letter from HPD Commissioner


Quote:
<H4>Latham & Watkins LLP Real Estate Practice Is Working To Preserve Affordable Housing In Upper Manhattan
Quote:

In response to the real estate market’s economic downturn and its consequences for low-income homeowners, Latham & Watkins LLP decided to expand the real estate practice’s pro bono work. The firm’s expertise became the perfect complement to the legal services being provided by The Legal Aid Society’s Community Development Project’s (“CDP”) Adopt-A-Coop Pro Bono program. The new partnership was kicked off with a training, attended by more than 45 Latham attorneys, on “Creation and Preservation of Low-Income HDFC Housing Cooperatives” and presented by the CDP’s knowledgeable staff – Stephen Falla-Riff and Rolando Gonzalez.
Under the leadership of Frederic Glassman, the firm’s attorneys have been working on a variety of matters that will help create and maintain affordable housing in Upper Manhattan. Their review of construction loan re-financing documents for two low-income co-ops will help create 90 units of affordable housing and their assistance to an HDFC to develop a re-sale policy that complies with the law will add additional affordable units to the Harlem community.
</H4>
Quote:
Yeah, recommending buying for $309,000 in a market as goofy and risky as HDFC WITHOUT a lawyer...now I know what the word DUMB TWIT really means.


Of course, I could go on for days here with lawyer after lawyer...but it's easier just to put you back on IGNORE. (I'll try again in 6 months to see if you are back on your meds.)


Last edited by Kefir King; 10-28-2012 at 08:51 AM..
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Old 10-28-2012, 09:00 AM
 
26,588 posts, read 59,791,404 times
Reputation: 13140
Quote:
Originally Posted by jcoltrane View Post
There are NO lawyers which "specialize" in subsidized housing!! That's silly. People can't afford a real down payment on a real apartment, how can they afford a *real* attorney?

An attorney, who has delved into, as you put it, the "chicanery" of Federal/State/City regulations??? Where is the money in that? Fees for such work, effort and developed expertise would run in the neighborhood of $1500 to $2500, JUST to evaluate and advise.

So, your advice is unrealistic. Though, perhaps an attorney with a non profitt organization might have some experience.

An attorney is not what one needs. One simply needs to be *connected*, got a friend or relative which works for the agency? Know someone who as recently gone through the process? Got the time to go down to the agency and go diligently through their material? Then meet with someone at the agency to ask questions and get more info? Of course, this requires taking time off from work (which typically is a difficulty for low income people).

You know how people get these apartments? They know somebody, do all the above, then they LIE!!!

Make six figures and what a subsidized apartment/house? LIE! This is why knowing someone on the inside is necessary. They can show you how to manipulate the System to your advantage.

How else do you think these things are done? With so much *competition*? The luck of the draw? Nope.

Also, this subsidize crap is ALL **political**. Controlled by politicians and government sanctioned non profit agencies (like the no defunct "Acorn").

Counclmen, Assemblymen, Congressmen, on every level control this crap; along with connected "non profit" heads and personnel, as well as "agency" personnel.

Who gets the inside track on such apartments? Those connected in some way with those above. The purpose of the "chicanery" is to be a *barrier* against the UNconnected!

Who are the connected? Beyond family and friends, people wno **volunteer** for political campaigns and work diligently and hard. Year after year. They don't get pay or a job. What they do get is rewarded by the politicians with government handouts. Note those people *volunteering* on election day? Why do you think they do it? The meager compensation? How do you think they come to be volunteering?

A call is made and the office staffer of 'fill in the blank Politician' gets the inside track on an affordable, newly built doorman subsidized building. Maybe not just the staffer, but the staffer's daughter or friend. The politician's cousin or brother. So on and so on.....

In the best and most coveted buildings only a small percentage are "luck of the draw'. They are just for "show", apearance. Its government, which is just a Con!

The Federal programs are the least corrupt, the State is more so, and local/City programs are completely corrupt!

Transplants w/n have a clue of any of the above, and rightly so! It is and should remain a local "native" thing!
I find your post not only woefully incorrect, but highly offensive.

I used to sit on the board for a community non-profit that owned several buildings purchased through a similar program. I can tell you with 100% certainty that being chosen as a resident had NOTHING to do with connections or politics. In fact we purposely had NO politicians or bureaucrats on our board, although there were a couple who volunteered along side grandmothers, working dads, and college kids to help fix up the properties when we first acquired them. The majority of the board was made up of average people. I worked in sales, there were a couple retirees, a housewife, a paramedic, an auto mechanic and a physical therapist. None of us were rich or well connected, we just had a personal commitment to help others.

We had an application process which included a written application, an interview, a credit check, a background check, and more. Our decisions were based on people meeting the criteria and wanting to be part of a group wanting to make a positive change in the community. Once we had a list of the people who met the basic criteria, our decisions were entirely need based. Our residents were required to do community service as part of the rent.

By the way, we did have an attorney who represented us in the acquisitions of property, he was a real estate attorney who specialized in multi-unit housing and had a strong knowledge of low and moderate income housing programs. We had another attorney who worked with us on legal matters pertaining to our not-for-profit status. Neither of them had any knowledge of who our tenants were, nor did they care.

Last edited by annerk; 10-28-2012 at 09:08 AM..
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Old 10-28-2012, 09:07 AM
 
26,588 posts, read 59,791,404 times
Reputation: 13140
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kefir King View Post
Take your pick:

.



</H4>

Yeah, recommending buying for $309,000 in a market as goofy and risky as HDFC WITHOUT a lawyer...now I know what the word DUMB TWIT really means.


Of course, I could go on for days here with lawyer after lawyer...but it's easier just to put you back on IGNORE. (I'll try again in 6 months to see if you are back on your meds.)

This is moot. In the State of New York, a real estate transfer can not happen without both parties being represented by an attorney. Any co-op experienced real estate lawyer would be able to represent someone for the purchase of a HDFC controlled property. The only difference between an open market transaction and a HDFC transaction is that there is a restrictive covenant in the deed that determines resale value based on annual appreciation. It's no different than units covered under the Nehemiah or Mount Laurel programs in other states. You are all making more of this than what there is, and making yourselves look rather foolish in the process.
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