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first, you missed the point with my i-bank/med school/law school reasoning. i was not claiming that CUNY had a med school or law school. i was stating that there are VERY FEW CUNY undergraduate alumni who work for top 10 investment banks or attend top tier med schools or top tier law schools. furthermore, that a single, isolated CUNY grad is a CEO represents nothing. it's the furthest deviation, not the median. second, if you're comparing CUNY to Syracuse, i'd agree with you. i don't distinguish between those schools. Syracuse is a pretty average school, as well. third, i never claimed that all schools ranked by us news provided top tier educations. but, i assure you that ivies deserve their elite rankings. fourth, no one is talking about graduate school. i'm talking about undergraduate school. no inferences can be made about a graduate school's worth based on its undergraduate rankings. fifth, i just don't understand the vigorous defense mounted here in favor of cuny or suny. i never disparaged either. i stated that they are average undergraduate schools. they are. no cuny or suny is an elite school. if you want a list of elite schools, us world report remains the gold standard for identifying them.
Hear's the issue, especially with the last sentence. Say an employer looks at applicants' resumes. He/she will look at top 15, and throw everyone else in the garbage.
Here's the issue. A student may be in a lower-tier school for reasons other than lack of qualifications. A qualifed student may have gone elsewhere due to affordability. He/she may have gone elsewhere because the school fit their personal needs as opposed to schools listed in the top-tier. But an employer looks at the school as non-top-tier and doesn't even consider the resume!
The lack of consideration for qualified applicants elsewhere may lead to a serious diversity problem! By restricting your applicant pool, you may exclude a whole host of qualified people from many different backgrounds. In addition, a resume from another school may have information that catches the eye of an employer. However, since the school is lower-tier, it doesn't even get considered. Finally, one thing that I've learned working on the job. College can only prepare you so far. Real-world work situations are a different animal (not just pro sports, either!).
Hear's the issue, especially with the last sentence. Say an employer looks at applicants' resumes. He/she will look at top 15, and throw everyone else in the garbage.
Here's the issue. A student may be in a lower-tier school for reasons other than lack of qualifications. A qualifed student may have gone elsewhere due to affordability. He/she may have gone elsewhere because the school fit their personal needs as opposed to schools listed in the top-tier. But an employer looks at the school as non-top-tier and doesn't even consider the resume!
The lack of consideration for qualified applicants elsewhere may lead to a serious diversity problem! By restricting your applicant pool, you may exclude a whole host of qualified people from many different backgrounds. In addition, a resume from another school may have information that catches the eye of an employer. However, since the school is lower-tier, it doesn't even get considered. Finally, one thing that I've learned working on the job. College can only prepare you so far. Real-world work situations are a different animal (not just pro sports, either!).
i agree with 90% of what you wrote. the only point i contest is the 'qualified student attending elsewhere due to affordability.' for ivies, baby ivies (read; u chicago, stanford, duke, etc.), and elite small liberal arts colleges (read; swarthmore, amhurst, williams, etc.) poverty bars nothing. ivies do not give performance-based or sports scholarships. the only factor they consider in granting money is financial need. i was one of those who got 80% of their undergraduate expenses granted to me by the university. if you can get in, you can go. look at the '%-age of student financial needs met' statistics to find out which schools operate like that. all ivies, baby ivies, and elite small liberal arts colleges are 100%.
points i agree with: (1) a student may elect to go elsewhere for other considerations. 100% correct. distance from home, a bf/gf, not liking the campus or the kids you met during your visit, etc. all understandable reasons for not attending a higher-ranked school. (2) employers discard non top-tier candidates. it's true. (3) discarding non top-tier candidates is an unfair way to select potential employees. absolutely right. i dare say that most people are qualified to do most of the jobs in existence today. i find it ridiculous that to work a public service job that you need an undergraduate degree. as i wrote in the 'too many irish firemen' thread, does knowing french literature make a fireman more effective in his profession? (4) potential lack of diversity. although i agree with this point, it isn't important to me. i have never valued the concept of diversity for diversity's sake. i want merit-based achievement, efficiency, and quality. i don't care who it comes from. (5) college can only prepare you so far. i would actually strengthen this statement. barring professional pursuits (read; engineering, law, medicine, teaching) i doubt whether college prepares people to work any job. college is supposed to educate people. i believe as a country we really missed the mark when we started labelling college as a job-preparation place. no one works in russian literature, but russian literature has good educational value, nonetheless, and the person who learns about it will be better served for it, regardless of whether is directly correlates to his job. (6) real world is a completely different animal. couldn't have said it better.
Most colleges do offer financial assistance, but oftimes it is a package which includes student loans. Many people have a hard time paying those off, so you start your post-college life pretty deep in debt.
I do agree that a BA is as "necessary" as a high school diploma used to be in order to get ahead as far as white collar jobs are concerned.
If someone attends a non-commuter school, they still have to pay for a dorm or other housing, which can be very expensive as well.
I think that even lower tiered schools and colleges can be of great benefit to those who attend. Education is always a good thing, and usually beneficial career wise as a rule. At least in my opinion...
And even those schools usually have internship opportunities, etc as far as I know, which can be invaluable--sometimes more valuable than just an ivy degree alone. (in my opinion). Other schools which prepare you for, say, a paralegal or med assistant job are certainly beneficial to people as well, no?
While I am sure the posters will find the info regarding colleges useful they haven't even gotten to the US yet. How about answering some of the other questions regarding jobs and renting an apt.
While I am sure the posters will find the info regarding colleges useful they haven't even gotten to the US yet. How about answering some of the other questions regarding jobs and renting an apt.
I believe those questions have been addressed.They will be relying on service jobs like retail which are plentiful in NYC. And they have been given excellent advice on neighborhoods for which they will feel comfortable. Renting might pose a problem since they are new immigrants but as long as they have some savings(they say they do) to pay first month + security then finding housing shouldn't be a problem.
written by someone who clearly did not attend an ivy. i did. all undergraduate schools inflate grades, all undergraduate schools. some are worse than others. harvard is a good example of an undergraduate school that grossly inflates its grades. in contrast, the ivy colleges at cornell (as opposed to the state schools) do not inflate grades, especially not in the hard sciences and math. the median grade for those courses is 'C' and all are graded on a curve.
i also don't know where you got the impression that ivy undergrads are 'often taught by a TA instead of a professor.' i had three classes that was taught by a graduate student. two were first-year writing seminars and one was calculus I. every other class i took was taught by a professor.
This debate of Ivy vs. Non-Ivy would be better suited in the education forum. But to keep w/in the context of this topic an Ivy school is not an option for these two for financial reasons.
This debate of Ivy vs. Non-Ivy would be better suited in the education forum. But to keep w/in the context of this topic an Ivy school is not an option for these two for financial reasons.
read my post to scatman to learn that financial reasons never bar someone from attending an ivy.
The reason it is not an option in this case is that they are not coming from wealth and since they are not US citizens they are prohibited from any financial aid to assist in paying the $80K+(remember there are two of them) a year to go to an ivy.This was a reason why a lot of student visa candidates apply to public schools. Maybe you can inform the OP as well as myself to any scholarships or aid they can use to help soften the blow of astronomical tuition cost and fees.
I agree that finances shouldn't stop a person from attending an Ivy but to carry a huge debt load coming out of undergrad has become the route less traveled for new college students.A lot of parents now send their kids to CC and then transfer into the big name colleges to save $100K.
The reason it is not an option in this case is that they are not coming from wealth and since they are not US citizens they are prohibited from any financial aid to assist in paying the $80K+(remember there are two of them) a year to go to an ivy.This was a reason why a lot of student visa candidates apply to public schools. Maybe you can inform the OP as well as myself to any scholarships or aid they can use to help soften the blow of astronomical tuition cost and fees.
I agree that finances shouldn't stop a person from attending an Ivy but to carry a huge debt load coming out of undergrad has become the route less traveled for new college students.A lot of parents now send their kids to CC and then transfer into the big name colleges to save $100K.
first, i don't come from wealth. it was not prohibitive to me attending an ivy. second, you are correct about their foreigner status being a potential issue. third, can we all please stop pretending that these two are getting into an ivy. i mean, really. fourth, if the hand of God does somehow grant them admission to an ivy, nothing will bar their attendence. when you submit your finances, they calculate how much loan money you are eligible for. it is usually around 18-19K/year, not nearly enough to cover tuition...let alone books, housing, food, etc. the school already has an estimated student budget calculated. at my undergrad. it was around 38-39K/year. the student's loan amount is subtracted from the total estimated student budget. the difference is the amount of grant money the school gives you. all told, i have approx. 75K in undergraduate loans.
as for going in debt....that's just the way it is these days, man. it's a big problem. undergrad. degrees (especially from schools of questionable academic value) do not command the respect they did 30 years ago. it's purely a function of scarcity. 30 years ago, only 14% of the population went to college. now, it's close to 1/2. 30 years ago, the majority of the college's were of good academic value. now, you've got earn-a-phd-online scams. you wanna talk about real debt? let's talk about med school or law school.
see in america you for some jobs u can be 16 and older but to get a job that really really really pays you have to to a good college
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