Grand Concourse and poverty question (New York, Webster: sales, 2014, power lines)

[rlrl]

What are the buildings north of Bedford Pk Blvd like inside? Say from the Concourse and Webster from 200th to about 203rd(ie the area covered by E Mosholu Pkwy south)?

Valentine Ave even in the 200's seems like it's pretty rough(but better than farther south), but Bainbridge and Marion near 201 street have some pretty handsome art deco buildings. Is this only a facade? Are they all shot inside as well?

I also remember an Irish pub (really gritty looking) on the corner of Valentine Ave and either 203rd or 202nd . Last i saw it there was around 1990. Now it's a bodega but I wonder, did this mean the street and surrounding area was primarily Irish at some point?

[Elvira Black]

These are terrific shots. I live in the general area and though I knew there were some nice houses etc on the side streets, this really hits me in the gut in a number of ways:

No people hanging out.
No litter! Streets clean!
Almost no graffiti
People on street are shopping, walking, do not look threatening.
Unique architecture (houses and apts)

So really to say it all changes completely at night when the werewolves come out is a bit of a stretch. You can't clean up graffiti before sunup. Street cleaners can't keep the streets that clean if they're filthy the night before.

Used to be that all of NYC was dirty--esp Manhattan. Garbage, filthy sidewalks, etc. This looks pristine.

And again--so maybe you don't go cop crack on the corner at midnight or join a gang. If you don't hang in the hood at night and mind your businesses odds are fairly decent you'll get out of there alive the next morning.

Area used to be a lot more Irish--tons of Irish bars all over the place. Now there's a lot fewer--just a smattering here and there til you get to Norwood, with a few in Bedford Park (very few in Fordham).

[yodel]

Rlrl, I’ve been in a few townhouses (maybe 4) in the area. The condition really varied. It seems the original houses were built in the late 1800s. The original woodwork is spectacular. However if these details were painted for more than 100 years, then they seem to be pretty much unsalvageable. Unfortunately that was the case in our house. The houses are mostly the “Queen Anne” style. Typ. of this style are the bow front windows and A line roofs. The houses I’ve been in have been quite large. Ours is about 22x60 with a good sized back yard. I think they were built for pretty wealthy people – high ceilings, big windows and lots of space.

Regarding apartment buildings, I’m sure the coops are very well maintained. Most other buildings seem well taken care of also, but you can tell there are a few problem buildings. I live off of Bedford Park Blvd. (been there 3 ½ yrs.) Never had anyone bother me. I’m also out a lot—mostly north of there, and often on the other side of Mosholu Parkway because that is the closest commercial strip, with the library, banks, chain drug store etc. My son also takes music classes close to there. We don’t get down to Fordham Rd often, but there is a really inexpensive children’s clothing store called Cookies on Webester Ave. just north of there. If you have kids it’s definitely a bargain. There is also a Gap on Fordham Rd., but for myself, I tend to go shopping in Westchester since I work there.

Elvira, my husband often walks the dog in the middle of the night, although I don't think its safe, he has no problem with it (he's a big guy however). I feel fine in the neighborhood in the evening, as long as it's not too late so it becomes isolated.

Crusjul, thanks for the info on posting photos. It sounds complicated, but hopefully I’ll get around to it sometime.

[Elvira Black]

Thanks, Yodel---Yeah, I hate to sound like if you live in the Bronx you dare not walk around at night. Again, it may depend a lot of the particular area, and if there's actually stores and restaurants/bars open later (vs. mostly deserted streets/closed stores etc). But a lot of the Bronx just isn't ready for that yet, though I think the Fordham Road shops (at least around the main drag) are open at night--probably more than they used to be. And of course the closer you are to Riverdale/Westchester the more options you're likely to have.

That house sounds awesome--if I could afford one, that would be the kind of house I'd want (though I'm more of an apt person.)

[yodel]

Elvira, we wouldn't be able to afford the house without the rental income, even though the price we bought it for seems somewhat quaint 3 1/2 yrs later. I think more people can afford it than they think, if they buy a multi-family, because rents are so high, and the rental pays a big chunk of the costs associated with owning. Our bank had a program for buying in lower-income zip codes (including coops), so you get a lower mortgage rate on a 30 year loan, more flexible lending requirements and perhaps help saving with the downpayment. I've mentioned this before, because I think many people don't know about it. I hear some people on this board making more than 100K saying they can't afford anything. That is simply not true. Our particular house needs a lot of work, which we've been doing slowly ever since we got here. In our case the rental income covers the Mort/taxes/ins. if you can believe it. But heat costs a lot more than I would have thought (like $5-6,000 a year) Plus there's the water bill to pay.

[Songbird42]

I also looked at all the photos that were on this site, and as Elvira said, you can't change a area overnight. The area north of Fordham Rd looks very nice the apt houses have been sandblasted and renovated, so what's the big deal?
From the pics, I see people walking about, shopping or just minding their own business, and of course I'm not there in the evening, but I think someone has exaggerated his point on this area. I'm not in law enforcement, so maybe my view would change, cause I don't have to deal with some of the lowlife's/criminals that are in that area.

[Elvira Black]

Yes, that sounds like a great deal, as long as you can tolerate being a landlord and get decent tenants. And yes, that's true, in more "distressed" areas they will tend to give owners a better mortgage rate, which is a good perk.

There is still such a stigma about the Bronx though that some people just automatically consider it beyond the pale, no matter what. IMO, this is good news for those who decide to invest here now. The rental market is so tight that I think there's a big income potential there, and I'm sure it's a million times nicer than most NY apts, hands down.

You probably mentioned this in another thread, but have you had any serious probs/headaches with tenants you've rented to?

[Elvira Black]

Yes, Songbird 42, in my opinion Hustla and some others really exaggerate things, as if the whole Bronx is the same bombed out hellhole it was in the 70s (when the whole city was also in bad shape). There was also a thread where people really tried to muddy the waters even more by declaring that more northern areas of the Bronx (like Fordham, Bedford Park etc--I mean we're talking 196 Street and up--how much more northern do you need to be before you're not in the "South Bronx" anymore?) are also South Bronx.

So this way you get to lump in Mott Haven (South Bronx) with Fordham/Bedford Park (northern Bronx, approx 50 blocks or more up, which in NYC can be an entirely different universe.) It's like calling midtown "uptown" in Manhattan. It's not yuppie living, but it isn't hell on earth either esp if you aren't a crackhead or gang member who hangs on the street at night looking for trouble. It would be nicer if there was someplace to go at night where it felt safe to stroll around, but if the nearby businesses close up at 9 pm your options are limited, and some of those hanging out are going to be up to no good. But in some areas like Norwood or Riverdale (a little further up) I'm sure there are more nightlife options. For six to ten bucks or so, you can get a car service to take you up there in the evening.

Hustla also cannot seem to fathom that not everyone grew up in the ghetto and can't wait to get out and move to the burbs in another city. Some people come from the burbs and want to come to NYC for myriad compelling reasons, so they're not all just going to turn around and move back where they came from on his sayso.

Generally, those who choose to stay permanently are survivors. They"re willing to live differently than those in the burbs, because for whatever reason they crave city life, and NYC is the biggest of them all. Quality of life for them may involve less space but better paying jobs, urban amenities, not needing a car, more diversity, more culture, etc. IMO the suburbs are bland, desolate, and boring.

[yodel]

Elvira:
Yes!!! Our first tenants were horrible. We were so stressed out about paying the mortgage we thought Section 8 was the best way to go, because the income is guaranteed (we thought). We also did no screening (stupid I know). Section 8 was constantly changing their portion of the rent according to how much they worked, etc. If their portion was higher they would say to us – oh that’s a mistake, you have to work it out with Seciton 8. They were also supposedly working section 8 but really worked very little. They were loud and if you could have seen how they left the apartment, it didn’t look as if they ever cleaned it. I don’t want to generalize, but those are the last section 8 tenants we would get. I know there are nice people out there, but if it doesn’t work out, it takes a long time to get them to leave even if their lease is up. Fortunately we have great tenants now, but being a landlord can be a big headache and it’s definitely more work.

[Moth]

I also remember an Irish pub (really gritty looking) on the corner of Valentine Ave and either 203rd or 202nd . Last i saw it there was around 1990Now it's a bodega but I wonder, did this mean the street and surrounding area was primarily Irish at some point?

When I was living in the area, there were many more Irish bars. In particular, Bedford Park Blvd between the Concourse and Jerome had a whole bunch. There were several more on Jerome all the way down to Fordham Road. There was still one south of Fordham Road on either Tiebout or Valentine. Great places, all.

Bedford Park and Norwood were loaded with Irish at that time. Even the blocks just south of BPB had some Irish living there. I recall around 1994 or so, I sat next to some Irish guy at a Yankees game and he told me Bedford Park was becoming like Fordham and he was fleeing to Woodlawn.