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We all know that even the Concourse north of Fordham and Kingsbridge is "gone" or "shot" save maybe the section north of Bedford park, as we have been discussing this area for much of the summer
However, I'm curious about one thing and it has to do with that things may be relative within the realm of poverty
take, say the Concourse north of Kingsbridge, say at 196th or 197th street. We all know it's gone and the buildings are graffiti ridden and many of the courtyards grimy.
Obviously, if given the choice to live on the Concourse and 196th/197th street or Irwin Ave in the 230's, the average person who knew the area would definitely choose to live on Irwin
But I'm wondering, for someone living on the Concourse in the 160's or 170's, is it considered "better", "safer", "more desirable" to live on the Concourse up at 196th/197th than it is to live down in the 160's/170's? Or is there no difference now, if there ever was a difference?
Are your chances of getting mugged at night the same in Bedford Pk as they are in Tremont?
Fordham-Bedford went down hill years ago. In fact the process started early as the the 1950/60's. By the late 70's the area was already shot but it didn't become a complete dump until crack hit in the mid 80's. That was the nail in the coffin.
In fact you are more likely to get mugged in the 180/90th Streets thanks to the combination of Fordham Road (Attracts muggers), tenements (Places to hide, to escape into), and the subway system (Escape route and brings strangers from other areas). Always been a big problem around there. Of course the difference is insignificant. Virtually the same.
Last edited by Hustla718; 09-09-2007 at 07:49 PM..
Well, I don't want to bring up race, but I see White people walking the streets at 2 AM as you near the northern tip of the Concourse (as in the last few blocks that go right into the Tracey Towers and the 4 Station) so surely that means something? The very north of the Concourse hasn't ghettoized yet, nor has it become really bad. Still, something about it is undesirable.
the massiveness of tracey towers and the el makes the area look ugly. the sight of anything around the el casts a gloom over the concourse. the sidestreets are still ok (going away from the el).
if i had to choose between the concourse north of fordham or south of it, i'd choose north of it (especially above bedford blvd) in a heartbeat.
south of fordham all those sidestreets off the concourse are completely shellacked, one bombed out block after another... the concourse itself is more rowdy,tons of noise, the streets are filthy...gangs of ppl hanging out on every block.
im not sayin above fordham is a nice area, but the concourse itself does seem a little more quieter and clean, buildings seem more well kept. the sidestreets in bedford pk (190's) are quite run-down though, no doubt.
Tracey Towers is subsidized housing. They don't attract the best attention.
People don't want to live on or around the Grand Concourse. Too many inner city problems. From crime (even a reality around Moshulo Parkway, one of the better sections around the GC) to filth (Roaches, mice, they are old buildings and you have neighbors). Another problem is space. People today want land and property. The Grand Concourse does not offer that and becuase of this it fell into decay. It has become undesireable.
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Originally Posted by Concept
gotta disagree a bit with Hustla here.
if i had to choose between the concourse north of fordham or south of it, i'd choose north of it (especially above bedford blvd) in a heartbeat.
south of fordham all those sidestreets off the concourse are completely shellacked, one bombed out block after another... the concourse itself is more rowdy,tonse of noise, the streets are filthy...gangs of ppl hanging out on every block.
im not sayin above fordham is a nice area, but the concourse itself does seem a little more quieter and clean, buildings seem more well kept. the sidestreets between the concourse and webster are quite run-down though, no doubt.
South of Bedford Park Blvd is virtually the same as the areas south of Fordham Road. It may be a bit more built up off the main strip, but it suffers from the same problems across the neighborhood. From the intense drug trade east of the Grand Concourse, to the heavy gang presence to the west. There are even pockets north of Bedford Park Blvd that resemble the South Bronx. Look at Hull Ave north of Mosholo Pkwy for example. The buildings are in **** condition and the drug trade is flourishing.
what is the area on the other side of the Concourse north of Kingsbridge(Morris, Creston and 196th, 197, 198th)--is that called Bedford Park too or something else--and is the drug trade over there too or is it more gangs? Is it as bad as on the other side of the Concourse?
What about farther west on the other side of Jerome--University, Webb, 195th, 197th, my neighborhood precinct covers that area and every week i am reading about push in robberies, assaults, murders on those blocks. I have driven past there and the buildings look fairly decent(maybe a graffiti scrawl on a nice art deco bldg) but from what i read in the papers it seems you might get a paranoid complex from living there. Yet when you go further up Sedgwick past 197th it's much better. What happens that makes it much better? Does the reservoir have anything to do with it(big difference between the north end of the reservoir[Van Cort Village] and the south end [Webb, etc])?
It seems the less serious crimes(holdups, roughups, robberies of cellphones) happen around bailey, K'bridge terrace, heath and on the step streets but not like around University, Webb which is far worse
When did that area start declining? As quickly as Fordham/Bedford?
what is the area on the other side of the Concourse north of Kingsbridge(Morris, Creston and 196th, 197, 198th)--is that called Bedford Park too or something else--and is the drug trade over there too or is it more gangs? Is it as bad as on the other side of the Concourse?
The areas north of Kingsbridge Road, south of Bedford Park Blvd deal with the same problems as the rest of the Fordham-Bedford neighborhood. Gangs and drugs are a problem across the neighborhood, however the gangs have especially concentrated around Saint James Park for years, and the areas east of the Grand Concourse, south of Bedford Park Blvd have been a major drug hub for a long, LONG time.
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Originally Posted by rlrl
What about farther west on the other side of Jerome--University, Webb, 195th, 197th, my neighborhood precinct covers that area and every week i am reading about push in robberies, assaults, murders on those blocks. I have driven past there and the buildings look fairly decent(maybe a graffiti scrawl on a nice art deco bldg) but from what i read in the papers it seems you might get a paranoid complex from living there. Yet when you go further up Sedgwick past 197th it's much better. What happens that makes it much better? Does the reservoir have anything to do with it(big difference between the north end of the reservoir[Van Cort Village] and the south end [Webb, etc])?
It seems the less serious crimes(holdups, roughups, robberies of cellphones) happen around bailey, K'bridge terrace, heath and on the step streets but not like around University, Webb which is far worse
When did that area start declining? As quickly as Fordham/Bedford?
Kingsbridge Heights started to decline around the same time as Fordham Bedford, only at a much slower pace. North end is still decent but it's days are numbered. The South end has already declined thanks to poverty and the problems that come with it. The middle is basicially the areas we will see change as the years pass. The boarderline areas. Of course Bailey around the NYCHA building already has plenty of problems like the southern section of the neighborhood.
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