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You are missing my point entirely. It is important to recognize the reality or things will never change.
There is a body of writing and research, a major one, that discusses the rapidly growing inequalities in higher education. These are built around income and social class.
The rest is feel-good fiction with supporters on all sides, but largely supported by neo-liberal politics. I am not in any way a conservative, by the way.
That's great. It is posts such as these that keeps race issues alive. You most likely were just making an innocent post, but what does it matter what nationality/race they are. They are doing better as a group of KIDS so just leave it at that.
I don't understand why certain races have to be pointed out. people are people, kids are kids. Not black or latino kids....
although this would be great in your ideal utopia
unfortunately in new york city, the socioeconomic disparity among racial lines is clearer than ever, and it is great news and better to have open dialogue on the issues rather than ignoring them
there was an article in the new york times about the elite public Stuyvesant High School, and how guidance counselors in some of the cities black communities don't even the test to their students. the school is 70%+ asian, less than 1% black. new york city is 10% asian.
Stuyvesant: 34% poor in '08 -----------41% poor in '10
Bronx Sci : 22% poor in '08 -------------32% poor in '10
Brookyln Tech: 52% poor in '08 ---------64% poor in '10
You have to consider that this is still below the citywide average. I think something like 2/3 of all NYC public school students get free or reduced-price lunch.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DAS
Free school lunch is a poor indicator of poverty in NYC. They don't ask for proof of the parents income, like tax forms. You mostly just have to complete a form. If they did only students that would qualify for food stamps would get free lunch. Mostly all students can get a free or reduced price lunch in NYC public schools.
They ask for a social security number, so if somebody makes significantly over the limit, they'd be afraid of getting caught. But I doubt they'd bother anybody if they're just slightly over the limit.
In any case, the guidelines are pretty high. I think for a family of 5, the limit is $68,000.
Students can get free lunch if they're below 130% of the federal poverty line, and reduced-price lunch if they're under 185% of the federal poverty line (keep in mind that they only adjust it in Alaska and Hawaii)
They ask for a social security number, so if somebody makes significantly over the limit, they'd be afraid of getting caught. But I doubt they'd bother anybody if they're just slightly over the limit.
In any case, the guidelines are pretty high. I think for a family of 5, the limit is $68,000.
Students can get free lunch if they're below 130% of the federal poverty line, and reduced-price lunch if they're under 185% of the federal poverty line (keep in mind that they only adjust it in Alaska and Hawaii)
You are missing my point entirely. It is important to recognize the reality or things will never change.
There is a body of writing and research, a major one, that discusses the rapidly growing inequalities in higher education. These are built around income and social class.
The rest is feel-good fiction with supporters on all sides, but largely supported by neo-liberal politics. I am not in any way a conservative, by the way.
You consider this feel good fiction. I consider yours the doom and gloom fiction, which is worse. The doom and gloom fiction keeps a person from trying to aspire to something better.
If you aspire to be a doctor and make it through undergrad with a biology, or chemistry major, and realize that you won't get into medical school, you can still go to graduate school. At the very least you'd be a chemistry or biology teacher, or even a professor.
Doom and gloom may keep a young person that is having a hard time socially in a tough neighborhood just because they like school, from even trying, then they end up being uneducated poor, unemployed, or working for a low income. I know quite a few gifted people in Harlem that you would pass by on the street and not give the time of day to, that fit this description. They bought into the doom and gloom.
There is very little if any research done on the feel good theory, it is always research supporting the doom and gloom when it comes to poor Whites (oops, there are none in NYC), Blacks, and Latins
You consider this feel good fiction. I consider yours the doom and gloom fiction, which is worse. The doom and gloom fiction keeps a person from trying to aspire to something better.
If you aspire to be a doctor and make it through undergrad with a biology, or chemistry major, and realize that you won't get into medical school, you can still go to graduate school. At the very least you'd be a chemistry or biology teacher, or even a professor.
Doom and gloom may keep a young person that is having a hard time socially in a tough neighborhood just because they like school, from even trying, then they end up being uneducated poor, unemployed, or working for a low income. I know quite a few gifted people in Harlem that you would pass by on the street and not give the time of day to, that fit this description. They bought into the doom and gloom.
There is very little if any research done on the feel good theory, it is always research supporting the doom and gloom when it comes to poor Whites (oops, there are none in NYC), Blacks, and Latins
Dude you are full of ****. No poor white ppl in NYC? Are you kidding me? You must live in a bubble. How come you left out Asians?
I know quite a few gifted people in Harlem that you would pass by on the street and not give the time of day to, that fit this description. They bought into the doom and gloom.
No ... they would have had a tutor or tutor(s), either me or one of my colleagues. I am quite familiar with the talented students. I object to the fact that everyone else, from high average down, falls by the wayside unless that child happens to be from significant money. You do not have a problem with that. I do.
Just wondering how many of you here are actually involved in education.
Ok seriously though, while I agree that the amount of Asians in Stuy and specialized high schools in general are disproportionately high, we all were admitted fairly. Sometimes I feel like Asians are being blamed for attending specialized high schools, as if it were their fault for placing priority in academics. I do not understand the "low income Blacks and Latinos are disadvantaged" argument. NYC is home to a large immigrant Asian population, and most non-English speaking Asian parents do not earn much. While most students in Stuy probably received tutoring for the SHSAT, keep in mind that even low-income families can afford some tutoring if they make financial sacrifices elsewhere. Not all tutoring is done 1-on-1, and not all tutors cost $100+ an hour. I will admit that I did receive tutoring, but I also worked hard in middle school and self-studied for the SHSAT from a Barron's book.
I have self-studied for SATs, SAT Subject Tests, and APs and I've done fairly well on all of them. Study guides like Barron's and Princeton review are relatively cheap. Online resources like MIT Opencourseware, Khan Academy, Youtube channels are completely free. This isn't really related to specialized high school admissions, but I just wanted to point out that a low family income is not a barrier to academic achievement. Likewise, rejection from a specialized high school is not a barrier to college admissions. Stuy is great because it provides opportunities (numerous clubs and classes offered) and being with smart students encourages you to work harder, but nonetheless there are Stuy students who slack off and end up at mediocre colleges. On the other hand, students who work hard at mediocre high schools can end up at prestigious universities. What a student does with their four years as a high school student matters much more than the school itself. *stops before going on a ramble about college...*
Btw, Stuy is a math and science school so don't hate on me for my poor writing abilities
Edit: I also wanted to point out that 70% Asian includes people from India, Bangladesh, and Korea. And no, contrary to popular belief, Chinese and Koreans are not the same.
Edit2: Free SHSAT tutoring: http://schools.nyc.gov/Offices/SHSI/default.htm
If I recall correctly, SHSI actually purposely rejects the smartest students and instead looks for borderline students who would not be able to attend a specialized high school otherwise.
Last edited by SleepingInClass; 03-19-2012 at 12:27 AM..
Anyone on SNAP is entitled to free lunch for their students.
The drive for schooling is about individualized priorities, and parental priorities.
Often an individual's drive to learn can be shaped by the school that they are in.
However, this often will have more to do with peers than with teachers alone.
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