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Old 03-19-2012, 07:11 AM
 
Location: NYC
2,223 posts, read 5,337,502 times
Reputation: 1101

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Quote:
Originally Posted by SleepingInClass View Post
70% White Country USA QuickFacts from the US Census Bureau Nobody cares.
70% Asian Stuy: Everybody flips out.

Ok seriously though, while I agree that the amount of Asians in Stuy and specialized high schools in general are disproportionately high, we all were admitted fairly. Sometimes I feel like Asians are being blamed for attending specialized high schools, as if it were their fault for placing priority in academics. I do not understand the "low income Blacks and Latinos are disadvantaged" argument. NYC is home to a large immigrant Asian population, and most non-English speaking Asian parents do not earn much. While most students in Stuy probably received tutoring for the SHSAT, keep in mind that even low-income families can afford some tutoring if they make financial sacrifices elsewhere. Not all tutoring is done 1-on-1, and not all tutors cost $100+ an hour. I will admit that I did receive tutoring, but I also worked hard in middle school and self-studied for the SHSAT from a Barron's book.

I have self-studied for SATs, SAT Subject Tests, and APs and I've done fairly well on all of them. Study guides like Barron's and Princeton review are relatively cheap. Online resources like MIT Opencourseware, Khan Academy, Youtube channels are completely free. This isn't really related to specialized high school admissions, but I just wanted to point out that a low family income is not a barrier to academic achievement. Likewise, rejection from a specialized high school is not a barrier to college admissions. Stuy is great because it provides opportunities (numerous clubs and classes offered) and being with smart students encourages you to work harder, but nonetheless there are Stuy students who slack off and end up at mediocre colleges. On the other hand, students who work hard at mediocre high schools can end up at prestigious universities. What a student does with their four years as a high school student matters much more than the school itself. *stops before going on a ramble about college...*
Btw, Stuy is a math and science school so don't hate on me for my poor writing abilities

Edit: I also wanted to point out that 70% Asian includes people from India, Bangladesh, and Korea. And no, contrary to popular belief, Chinese and Koreans are not the same.
Edit2: Free SHSAT tutoring: Specialized High Schools Institute - Offices & Programs - New York City Department of Education
If I recall correctly, SHSI actually purposely rejects the smartest students and instead looks for borderline students who would not be able to attend a specialized high school otherwise.
I agree with everything in your post especially the suggestions you have made for low or no-cost educational supplements. If you want to achieve, you have to make sacrifices sometimes.
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Old 03-19-2012, 09:10 AM
DAS
 
2,532 posts, read 6,841,680 times
Reputation: 1116
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mistertee View Post
Dude you are full of ****. No poor white ppl in NYC? Are you kidding me? You must live in a bubble. How come you left out Asians?
I'm a woman. See the (oops), its called sarcasm. I used it because many post in this thread imply that only the middle class go to these schools, and that most of them are White. The post also imply that if the student is poor they must be Asian.
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Old 03-19-2012, 09:12 AM
DAS
 
2,532 posts, read 6,841,680 times
Reputation: 1116
Quote:
Originally Posted by Harlem resident View Post
No ... they would have had a tutor or tutor(s), either me or one of my colleagues. I am quite familiar with the talented students. I object to the fact that everyone else, from high average down, falls by the wayside unless that child happens to be from significant money. You do not have a problem with that. I do.

Just wondering how many of you here are actually involved in education.
Well you and colleagues are not able tutor everyone, because many fall by the wayside before they enter middle school.
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Old 03-19-2012, 09:13 AM
DAS
 
2,532 posts, read 6,841,680 times
Reputation: 1116
Quote:
Originally Posted by checkmatechamp13 View Post
Because Asians (both poor and non-poor) are disproportionately represented in specialized schools.
Thanks.
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Old 03-19-2012, 09:22 AM
bg7
 
7,694 posts, read 10,512,033 times
Reputation: 15298
"70% White Country USA QuickFacts from the US Census Bureau Nobody cares.
"

Yea, they should really do something about that.
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Old 03-19-2012, 09:24 AM
DAS
 
2,532 posts, read 6,841,680 times
Reputation: 1116
Quote:
Originally Posted by SleepingInClass View Post
70% White Country USA QuickFacts from the US Census Bureau Nobody cares.
70% Asian Stuy: Everybody flips out.

Ok seriously though, while I agree that the amount of Asians in Stuy and specialized high schools in general are disproportionately high, we all were admitted fairly. Sometimes I feel like Asians are being blamed for attending specialized high schools, as if it were their fault for placing priority in academics. I do not understand the "low income Blacks and Latinos are disadvantaged" argument. NYC is home to a large immigrant Asian population, and most non-English speaking Asian parents do not earn much. While most students in Stuy probably received tutoring for the SHSAT, keep in mind that even low-income families can afford some tutoring if they make financial sacrifices elsewhere. Not all tutoring is done 1-on-1, and not all tutors cost $100+ an hour. I will admit that I did receive tutoring, but I also worked hard in middle school and self-studied for the SHSAT from a Barron's book.

I have self-studied for SATs, SAT Subject Tests, and APs and I've done fairly well on all of them. Study guides like Barron's and Princeton review are relatively cheap. Online resources like MIT Opencourseware, Khan Academy, Youtube channels are completely free. This isn't really related to specialized high school admissions, but I just wanted to point out that a low family income is not a barrier to academic achievement. Likewise, rejection from a specialized high school is not a barrier to college admissions. Stuy is great because it provides opportunities (numerous clubs and classes offered) and being with smart students encourages you to work harder, but nonetheless there are Stuy students who slack off and end up at mediocre colleges. On the other hand, students who work hard at mediocre high schools can end up at prestigious universities. What a student does with their four years as a high school student matters much more than the school itself. *stops before going on a ramble about college...*
Btw, Stuy is a math and science school so don't hate on me for my poor writing abilities

Edit: I also wanted to point out that 70% Asian includes people from India, Bangladesh, and Korea. And no, contrary to popular belief, Chinese and Koreans are not the same.
Edit2: Free SHSAT tutoring: Specialized High Schools Institute - Offices & Programs - New York City Department of Education
If I recall correctly, SHSI actually purposely rejects the smartest students and instead looks for borderline students who would not be able to attend a specialized high school otherwise.
I agree with everything you have stated also. I also have younger relatives that went to Bronx Science, and Brooklyn Tech by using these same methods, also for SAT's. and later GRE's.

My peeve is the doom and gloom on Black and Latin students abilities especially if they are not immigrants.

I don't see any hate on this thread against Asians students, I just see a comparison to the Black and Latin Students. The statements concerning the number of Asian students in these schools are more of praise not hating.
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Old 03-19-2012, 12:21 PM
 
Location: Sunset Park, Brooklyn
423 posts, read 1,277,469 times
Reputation: 228
Quote:
Originally Posted by SleepingInClass View Post
70% White Country USA QuickFacts from the US Census Bureau Nobody cares.
70% Asian Stuy: Everybody flips out.

Ok seriously though, while I agree that the amount of Asians in Stuy and specialized high schools in general are disproportionately high, we all were admitted fairly. Sometimes I feel like Asians are being blamed for attending specialized high schools, as if it were their fault for placing priority in academics. I do not understand the "low income Blacks and Latinos are disadvantaged" argument. NYC is home to a large immigrant Asian population, and most non-English speaking Asian parents do not earn much. While most students in Stuy probably received tutoring for the SHSAT, keep in mind that even low-income families can afford some tutoring if they make financial sacrifices elsewhere. Not all tutoring is done 1-on-1, and not all tutors cost $100+ an hour. I will admit that I did receive tutoring, but I also worked hard in middle school and self-studied for the SHSAT from a Barron's book.

I have self-studied for SATs, SAT Subject Tests, and APs and I've done fairly well on all of them. Study guides like Barron's and Princeton review are relatively cheap. Online resources like MIT Opencourseware, Khan Academy, Youtube channels are completely free. This isn't really related to specialized high school admissions, but I just wanted to point out that a low family income is not a barrier to academic achievement. Likewise, rejection from a specialized high school is not a barrier to college admissions. Stuy is great because it provides opportunities (numerous clubs and classes offered) and being with smart students encourages you to work harder, but nonetheless there are Stuy students who slack off and end up at mediocre colleges. On the other hand, students who work hard at mediocre high schools can end up at prestigious universities. What a student does with their four years as a high school student matters much more than the school itself. *stops before going on a ramble about college...*
Btw, Stuy is a math and science school so don't hate on me for my poor writing abilities

Edit: I also wanted to point out that 70% Asian includes people from India, Bangladesh, and Korea. And no, contrary to popular belief, Chinese and Koreans are not the same.
Edit2: Free SHSAT tutoring: Specialized High Schools Institute - Offices & Programs - New York City Department of Education
If I recall correctly, SHSI actually purposely rejects the smartest students and instead looks for borderline students who would not be able to attend a specialized high school otherwise.
Agreed with everything except the "low income" black and latino studentsare disadvantaged statement. Every culture is different and no one's history is the same. If blacks and latinos are doing worse there is obviously a reason for it, one that dates back generations.
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Old 03-19-2012, 12:36 PM
bg7
 
7,694 posts, read 10,512,033 times
Reputation: 15298
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andez View Post
If blacks and latinos are doing worse there is obviously a reason for it, one that dates back generations.
No, thats really not "obvious", its a viewpoint. Leaving aside African-Americans, and the long and awful history there, the very different population performance of immigrant latino children versus immigrant asian children here in NYC has exposed certain limitations of the blame society/language barrier/discrimination/poverty/culturally-biased tests arguments re. NYC public schools. What is clear is that in the case of academic achievement certain cultural practices can overcome perceived and real disadvantages.

When you simply state there must be same age-old reason for it, while you think you might be carefully not "blaming the victim" and all entailed by that, you're not helping anyone - its an excuse to stop thinking/stop examining the problem.
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Old 03-19-2012, 01:07 PM
 
Location: Sunset Park, Brooklyn
423 posts, read 1,277,469 times
Reputation: 228
Quote:
Originally Posted by bg7 View Post
No, thats really not "obvious", its a viewpoint. Leaving aside African-Americans, and the long and awful history there, the very different population performance of immigrant latino children versus immigrant asian children here in NYC has exposed certain limitations of the blame society/language barrier/discrimination/poverty/culturally-biased tests arguments re. NYC public schools. What is clear is that in the case of academic achievement certain cultural practices can overcome perceived and real disadvantages.

When you simply state there must be same age-old reason for it, while you think you might be carefully not "blaming the victim" and all entailed by that, you're not helping anyone - its an excuse to stop thinking/stop examining the problem.
No, I'm not trying to give anyone an excuse to stop thinking/examining the problem. I actually encourage the opposite. I'm saying these things run more deep than many people think. I'd actually go as far as to say that if you believe that there isn't a reason hispanics/blacks do worse, then what you're basically saying is blacks/hispanics are genetically inferior to others because they don't do as well.

That being said, there is obviously a problem that must be addressed. Everything begins at home, and if the parents don't care, chances are the kid probably won't grow up to be Albert Einstein.
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Old 03-19-2012, 01:08 PM
bg7
 
7,694 posts, read 10,512,033 times
Reputation: 15298
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andez View Post
No, I'm not trying to give anyone an excuse to stop thinking/examining the problem. I actually encourage the opposite. I'm saying these things run more deep than many people think. I'd actually go as far as to say that if you believe that there isn't a reason hispanics/blacks do worse, then what you're basically saying is blacks/hispanics are genetically inferior to others because they don't do as well.
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