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Old 03-18-2012, 11:10 PM
 
142 posts, read 258,936 times
Reputation: 97

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Quote:
Originally Posted by bluedog2 View Post
Well,evidently most people who try decide that it's not worth it, no matter how cushy you might think it is.That should tell you something.
It's also a bare minimum of about 8.5 months total of reporting to work, assuming one could somehow avoid additional special meetings, training, etc.... And do all of their planning and grading at home. And have a Doctorate so they don't have to worry about continuing ed credits. And have a cushy assignment so that all those school year breaks and half the summer aren't spent sleeping and restoring sanity.

Under all of those circumstances, that supposed 4.5 months off (much closer to 3 when all is said and done) could be considered a real windfall. Otherwise, it's more like the only real perk offered for a difficult and exhausting job.

I've had teaching jobs and also done hard manual labor. The teaching jobs were much more exhausting. Personally, I'd equate an hour in the classroom with two or three hours swinging a pick or what-have-you. And I'm not even counting the prep and grading time associated with that hour of teaching.
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Old 03-19-2012, 07:11 AM
 
3,943 posts, read 5,055,668 times
Reputation: 4146
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hieronymus Bosch View Post

I've had teaching jobs and also done hard manual labor. The teaching jobs were much more exhausting. Personally, I'd equate an hour in the classroom with two or three hours swinging a pick or what-have-you. And I'm not even counting the prep and grading time associated with that hour of teaching.

Unless you work in a really good school- and they do exist.
Those teachers who I have spoken to believe their job is a pleasure.
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Old 03-19-2012, 07:48 AM
 
Location: NYC
2,223 posts, read 5,342,923 times
Reputation: 1101
Schools whose financial support isn't tied to government money, and whose performance isn't measured by standardized tests only, probably offer a better teaching/learning environment. When you have tests hanging over your head like the sword of damocles, how can you be innovative?

Also, how can you measure a teacher's performance by standardized tests alone? Has there been any research done to show correlation between teaching ability and standardized test scores?

A child's performance should not be measured by standardized tests alone. Using myself as an example, my test scores were "on grade" until I was in the 5th grade and then they jumped 5 grade levels. From then on, I was in honors classes, and went to a specialized high school. Maybe the light went on it because my teacher was innovative and the lessons were interesting.
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Old 03-19-2012, 08:03 AM
 
1,250 posts, read 2,154,004 times
Reputation: 2567
Quote:
Originally Posted by mathjak107 View Post
what other job will pay you that kind of money ,with those benefits and a pension and let you show up for work about 6-7 months out of a year.
Yes. If another poster's starting teacher salary quote of $45K is correct, and teachers work a solid 9 months out of the year, in real terms a starting teacher salary is actually $60K.

Then of course you would add all the federal holidays, 2 weeks for December holidays, all the Jewish holidays, snow days, strike days, etc., and it probably is more like a 7-month classroom commitment, which would roughly be $77K per annum in real terms (some of us out here can actually do math). Not bad for a starting teacher.

I have a family member who has been teaching science in a Harlem public school for 18 years, he makes about $90K He has been working on his doctorate, which is free at Columbia. He goes to teaching seminars and does research in exotic locales during his breaks (science, ya know) which he is able to take off on his taxes, and is looking to retire in another 1.5 years, at age 53.

Yes, the day-to-day classroom experience for teachers is demanding and high-stress. But I would put it up against many other work environments, such as my current one -- care for elderly dementia sufferers in a residential facility, and I'd say teachers have it made. Let's start with: my colleagues and I don't have any guaranteed vacation, we get accrued PTO after a few months of work, but sick leave is counted against that. If anyone wants to take school holidays to be with their kids, they have to fight for it. Residents die, get terrible illnesses, they are incontinent, they fall and have "confrontational episodes". Family members are often antagonistic towards us, and supervisors treat us as if we are expendable. Employment is "at will", we can get fired at any time for any reason, and quite a few people have been fired right off the floor for spurious reasons. There is no union, and employees at another facility in the same chain who tried to form a union were summarily fired.

Oh, and we make $10-$15 per hour. Which is, starting salary: $1600 per month, $19,200 per year. I have a Master's Degree.

I love what I do, but teaching is looking pretty good to me right now....
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Old 03-19-2012, 08:18 AM
 
Location: NYC
2,223 posts, read 5,342,923 times
Reputation: 1101
Quote:
Originally Posted by birdinmigration View Post
Yes. If another poster's starting teacher salary quote of $45K is correct, and teachers work a solid 9 months out of the year, in real terms a starting teacher salary is actually $60K.

Then of course you would add all the federal holidays, 2 weeks for December holidays, all the Jewish holidays, snow days, strike days, etc., and it probably is more like a 7-month classroom commitment, which would roughly be $77K per annum in real terms (some of us out here can actually do math). Not bad for a starting teacher.

I have a family member who has been teaching science in a Harlem public school for 18 years, he makes about $90K He has been working on his doctorate, which is free at Columbia. He goes to teaching seminars and does research in exotic locales during his breaks (science, ya know) which he is able to take off on his taxes, and is looking to retire in another 1.5 years, at age 53.

Yes, the day-to-day classroom experience for teachers is demanding and high-stress. But I would put it up against many other work environments, such as my current one -- care for elderly dementia sufferers in a residential facility, and I'd say teachers have it made. Let's start with: my colleagues and I don't have any guaranteed vacation, we get accrued PTO after a few months of work, but sick leave is counted against that. If anyone wants to take school holidays to be with their kids, they have to fight for it. Residents die, get terrible illnesses, they are incontinent, they fall and have "confrontational episodes". Family members are often antagonistic towards us, and supervisors treat us as if we are expendable. Employment is "at will", we can get fired at any time for any reason, and quite a few people have been fired right off the floor for spurious reasons. There is no union, and employees at another facility in the same chain who tried to form a union were summarily fired.

Oh, and we make $10-$15 per hour. Which is, starting salary: $1600 per month, $19,200 per year. I have a Master's Degree.

I love what I do, but teaching is looking pretty good to me right now....
My mom was a NYC teacher and I have done adjunct teaching, and there is a huge personal time commitment involved in preparing lessons. For every day I taught, I probably put in two days of prep. So, please account for that time when estimating net salary. Thanks.
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Old 03-19-2012, 08:26 AM
 
106,238 posts, read 108,237,907 times
Reputation: 79776
Quote:
Originally Posted by bluedog2 View Post
Well,evidently most people who try decide that it's not worth it, no matter how cushy you might think it is.That should tell you something.
both my wife and daughter are teachers and they know very few that actually leave because of the fact its a job like no other with so much time off.

many complain about things but few leave.
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Old 03-19-2012, 09:00 AM
 
1,250 posts, read 2,154,004 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by queensgrl View Post
My mom was a NYC teacher and I have done adjunct teaching, and there is a huge personal time commitment involved in preparing lessons. For every day I taught, I probably put in two days of prep. So, please account for that time when estimating net salary. Thanks.
Absolutely! Those of us in health care, particularly geriatric health care also put in plenty of time "for prep". I don't just walk into a group setting with 20 people with Alzheimer's and no idea of what to do with them! I spend my own time and money downloading iTunes and burning CDs (with "their" music), I bring in my own media, games, and books, and use my languages, art experience, education, and yoga training every day to bring meaning to their day.

It is very much like teaching, except we don't have teachers' salaries, benefits, or time off. We account for every second we are there with them, with documentation and "incident reports".

Oh, and I should also mention that the care staff, in addition to changing the Depends of every resident several times a day (of course, messy work, with risks of residents falling or 'lashing out' and injuring staff), also serve 3 full meals and 3 snacks a day, and set up and clean up the entire dining room. Med techs ($11 - 16/hr) also have to force residents to take a wide variety of medication all day long.

Should we cry some more, teachers?

My mom is also a teacher, my family is full of teachers. Yes, they complain about the profession. But they stay. Health care has a very heavy turnover rate, particularly in geriatric residential care.

Hardly ever will you see a health care aide on a summer European tour -- yet those tours are always full of teachers. Why -- health care pay is too low, and nobody gets the summers off!

Teaching is looking better and better all the time...
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Old 03-19-2012, 09:03 AM
 
Location: New York City
2,814 posts, read 6,859,270 times
Reputation: 3193
All the teachers I know are very aggravated and stressed out, but they love to teach. It's dealing with the administration that ruins it for them.
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Old 03-19-2012, 09:47 AM
s06
 
105 posts, read 256,011 times
Reputation: 88
Quote:
Originally Posted by birdinmigration View Post
...care for elderly dementia sufferers in a residential facility...Let's start with: my colleagues and I don't have any guaranteed vacation, we get accrued PTO after a few months of work, but sick leave is counted against that. If anyone wants to take school holidays to be with their kids, they have to fight for it. Residents die, get terrible illnesses, they are incontinent, they fall and have "confrontational episodes". Family members are often antagonistic towards us, and supervisors treat us as if we are expendable. Employment is "at will", we can get fired at any time for any reason, and quite a few people have been fired right off the floor for spurious reasons. There is no union, and employees at another facility in the same chain who tried to form a union were summarily fired.


Oh, and we make $10-$15 per hour. Which is, starting salary: $1600 per month, $19,200 per year. I have a Master's Degree.

Quote:
Originally Posted by birdinmigration View Post
...Oh, and I should also mention that the care staff, in addition to changing the Depends of every resident several times a day (of course, messy work, with risks of residents falling or 'lashing out' and injuring staff), also serve 3 full meals and 3 snacks a day, and set up and clean up the entire dining room. Med techs ($11 - 16/hr) also have to force residents to take a wide variety of medication all day long...
Wow. That's exactly why I thought it was insulting that my dentist suggested that I get a job "taking care of babies or the elderly."

Yeah. While other people have fun, partying and traveling, I'm supposed to be a slave and take care of their children and elderly parents.

Last edited by s06; 03-19-2012 at 10:04 AM..
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Old 03-19-2012, 10:03 AM
 
Location: Long Island, NY
7,844 posts, read 13,204,065 times
Reputation: 9247
Quote:
Originally Posted by Baby Punisher View Post
Teaching has beome a labor of love the past 20 years. These people were grossly under paid for years, & they have to deal with some real ****ty pupils.

Back in my time as a student you listened & respected a teacher. Now the kids & the parents are disrespectful to the teachers. It's a losing battle.

I have a cousin who changed her major from Advertising to teaching last year. Several of is tried to talk her out of it, she is pursuing it. Today she told me that the kids she student teaches told her flat out they don't have to listen to her & aren't afraid of her.

I'm terrified for her.
Yup! I know 2 people that quit teaching within 2-3 years. One is a relative and she was placed in one of the crappiest schools in Brooklyn. She was teaching 2nd grade and said the mothers of these kids were just about as old as she is (she's only 25) and were basically illiterate. She said the kids are bad and disrespectful. They destroyed supplies she brought in because BOE doesn't pay for anything anymore. My friend who quit teaching was in a decent school in Queens and said the same about the kids. It's not all about the salary or benefits and other political bs but the kids and parents. You can't say a word to these kids. I agree-when I was in school, even up until HS, I FEARED my teachers. Today it's the other way around. When I hear the mouths on these kids, it's revolting hearing the vulgarity and how aggressive they are. I commend each and every teacher that goes to work every day and has to deal with these kinds of kids.
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