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If you're working full time, and your employer is not offering any health benefits or a tax sheltered retirement option they are violating federal law.
i ofton wonder where folks come up with so many facts that are not true.
right from the us dept of labor website:
"Employers can choose whether to offer a retirement plan to employees; Federal law does not require employers to offer or to continue to offer a plan. "
as far as emloyers having to offer health insurance you have that doesnt take effect until 2014 and is only for companies with more than 50 employees.
". Employers May Be Required to Offer Coverage or Pay a Fine
"Beginning in 2014, employers that have 50 or more workers will be required to offer health insurance to their employees or incur a hefty fine. "
I definitely believe if teacher salaries were higher than we would not hear so many complaints. I know of one charter school in NYC that pays teachers $120,000 a year. But the positions are based on one year contracts and teachers work very long hours. If student don't improve academically then they are let go. Most teachers would happily put in the extra time if they were making that type of salary.
hell raise all our salaries and you wouldnt hear us complain about pay either. lol
again , teachers compensation packages are fair right now for the amount of time worked.
if employment was year round then yeah salaries would be out of whack but you take any of our jobs and prorate them by time on the job and they would work out the same way with us earning a piece of what we should earn.
the fact really is teaching is unfourtunetly for those who can live on a part time income (in the scheme of what a masters should earn) and are willing to scramble and fill in the blanks with other types of work if they need more.
its like having a seasonal business in a way. you either need to be able to live on what you take in by not working a full year or you need another business for when that season ends.
the issue like i said is many teachers can only get some kind of low paying summer job.
i remember as a kid seeing a teacher from our school selling drinks at rockaway beach.
the perks of teaching are such that they arent just about pay. the total package either works for you or it doesnt.
they are great for people who want to get home from work early so they are there when their kids get home
you get compensation in the form of a nice pension that can pay you more in retirement than you even made working cumulatively. that pension is the same as what the rest of us would
need 1 to 1.5 million in a nest egg to generate .
as a teacher , your neighbor with 1.5 million dollars saved is right on even keel with you as far as retirement income.
you do get all that extra time off as perk but if you cant take advantage of it then your actually giving up one of he perks of the job.
the medical is excellent..
all of the above really do make up an excellent compensation package for the right person. but that person has to fit that mold.
unfourtunely our education system by default cranks out to many folks who didnt want to be , shouldnt be and cant be teachers . then it creates many miserable teachers because they dont fit the mold of who really should be a teacher and they have to scramble the rest of their career to fill in with more income if they cant make do on what amounts to a partial years salary.
of course teachers want the same full salary that others make with a masters working year round but they want to earn it working only a partial year but things dont work that way.
my buddy has the same issues with being an electrician. that to is one of the greatest part time jobs as well. with all the furloughs he has to take everytime i talk to him he is inbetween going back to work.
great job,great benefits, great hourly wage but still not full time .
not every job fits everyones needs and lifestyles and thats an important key to being happy at what you do. we like to think teaching is like any other career path but in realty its turning out not to be. it really requires a certain type of person that can make do with what it offers and how they are compensated.
ideally its a person who has other passive income if they are single.
its folks who are couples and have a combined income that brings them up to the level they need
its a couple with 2 incomes and kids and you want the luxury of being there most days when they get home.
other than that unless you can live with your compensation package maybe teaching isnt the right choice financially for you.
Last edited by mathjak107; 03-22-2012 at 03:22 AM..
if you think about it, no one gets cranked out of college a doctor,dentist,lawyer, accountant or with a business degree .. you have to go in with a purpose and then you become what you want to become.
but thats not the way we generate teachers. by default we kind of grab them by surprise and get them in that funnel and spit them out really not qualifying them to go for anything else.
its my belief that we have to many teachers who are teachers by sytem default and really shouldnt be,cant be and wouldnt be teachers if they werent pushed that way through the system.
not being a teacher myself i cant say for sure exactly how the system does it but what do you teachers think who ended up teachers ?
Last edited by mathjak107; 03-22-2012 at 05:46 AM..
Private-sector pay? How about pay to allow, say, a NYC teacher to live...I don't know...in NYC?? I'm guessing that's too much to ask. Or are you suggesting one can live in NYC reasonably on 50K per year?
Get real, you can't even live in the burbs on 50K. Most people I know, whether in private sector or public making that kind of salary are rooming with others or renting a small studio in the outer boroughs. It can be done, however you need to be able to make sacrifices in early career. Those of us in private sector can remember when starting wages were in the 20's - yes that's right, in the 20's and rents were $500+ a month - we surviived, and so can those starting out with 50K and paying $1k + a month in rent/utilities.
Remember, NYC is made up of the 5 boroughs, you do not have to live in Manhattan to be considered living in NYC.
Get real, you can't even live in the burbs on 50K. Most people I know, whether in private sector or public making that kind of salary are rooming with others or renting a small studio in the outer boroughs. It can be done, however you need to be able to make sacrifices in early career. Those of us in private sector can remember when starting wages were in the 20's - yes that's right, in the 20's and rents were $500+ a month - we surviived, and so can those starting out with 50K and paying $1k + a month in rent/utilities.
Remember, NYC is made up of the 5 boroughs, you do not have to live in Manhattan to be considered living in NYC.
It's plenty clear that 50k is chump change by NYC standards. I don't think you understood my point. The entire theme of the thread is that no sane person should want to teach. A prevailing question is: How many decent, talented, hard-working people-with Master's Degrees- would choose a job making ~50k in NYC? How many of those people would choose that 50K-in-NYC lifestyle? As you said, even in the burbs-even outside of any of the five boroughs- 50k means a meager lifestyle in a small apartment with roommates. Many have chimed in and said something along the lines of 'If you don't like it, get out'. What if everybody DOES get out? If no sane, competent person gets or stays in teaching, there are no good teachers left. What does that mean for the schools? What does that mean for kids? What would that have meant for adults like you and I when we were in school? And then any rebuttal seems to revolve around 'Well, teaching isn't really that bad after all. The compensation is fine. Good, talented people might want to teach'. And we end up going in circles...
It's plenty clear that 50k is chump change by NYC standards. I don't think you understood my point. The entire theme of the thread is that no sane person should want to teach. A prevailing question is: How many decent, talented, hard-working people-with Master's Degrees- would choose a job making ~50k in NYC? How many of those people would choose that 50K-in-NYC lifestyle? As you said, even in the burbs-even outside of any of the five boroughs- 50k means a meager lifestyle in a small apartment with roommates. Many have chimed in and said something along the lines of 'If you don't like it, get out'. What is everybody DOES get out? If no sane, competent person gets or stays in teaching, there are no good teachers left. What does that mean for the schools? What does that mean for kids? What would that have meant for adults like you and I when we were in school? And then any rebuttal seems to revolve around 'Well, teaching isn't really that bad after all. The compensation is fine. Good, talented people might want to teach'. And we end up going in circles...
I went through the NYC public system - there are some very talented individuals who are teaching. That said, I've had more than my fair share who should be no where near a classroom, piece of chalk and eraser - some could be classified as certifiable "whack" jobs. The higher education system used to be set up to funnel those majors who either were unemployable with mediocre academic results by the private sector or were on a teacher-track to begin with. The NYC school system would take either a high school graduate with a teaching certificate (couple of courses plus practical experience), a college graduate or one with masters or higher or one with a college degree and provisional certificate.
The kids back then were mostly the same as today, with the exception that the internet has now made data available in an instant - there is too much damn information floating around. Too many ideas, too many new ideas, when the old ideas work just as well. The kids back then were disciplined and there were real ramifications for certain actions - today, it's undisciplined kids running around, petty slaps on the wrist, the level of administrative burden on teachers is ridiculous, not enough supplies, the theft of funds and equipment. Become a custodian if you want to make some real money.
There is too much of nepotism going on where even if you are a great teacher you are sent to the boondocks while "friends of the administration" are elevated into "you can't touch me status". How is it that people who live in the neighborhoods of certain schools are allowed to work there even if they are just average? Oh, I forgot, they are friends with someone who works at the school, their father sits on the local community board, they are well-known in the community and have other connections, yada, yada, yada............ The union is no "friend" or "advocate" for the children, they are only in it for their membership.......
If you took an average class and stripped out the bottom 10% of the class you might have a noticeable improvement in learning. Instead, I hear today, they have intergrated the bottom 10% of the class with kids that have learning disabilities, because every kid is "equal". For those in the private sector - do you really believe that everyone at your employer is equal. The answer is the same, there are those who rise to the top - always, those who do decent jobs, those who are average and then those who are below par performers. No one is equal.
I would teach if there were a group of kids who really wanted to learn and showed it. Step into a classroom, any classroom, I've yet to see a bunch of kids who rise to the occassion - for that you need honors level and even then, today, the entry bar is set too low - if you can pass a test you can enter. The same could be said of the parents, when they are around, frankly they need to put time into their kids, but they don't, then they complain when the kid doesn't improve or fails and the administration backs them.
A teacher friend of mine said they became a teacher for one thing - the money, security and benefits. Put the 25 in and get out!!!
I went through the NYC public system - there are some very talented individuals who are teaching. That said, I've had more than my fair share who should be no where near a classroom, piece of chalk and eraser - some could be classified as certifiable "whack" jobs. The higher education system used to be set up to funnel those majors who either were unemployable with mediocre academic results by the private sector or were on a teacher-track to begin with. The NYC school system would take either a high school graduate with a teaching certificate (couple of courses plus practical experience), a college graduate or one with masters or higher or one with a college degree and provisional certificate.
The kids back then were mostly the same as today, with the exception that the internet has now made data available in an instant - there is too much damn information floating around. Too many ideas, too many new ideas, when the old ideas work just as well. The kids back then were disciplined and there were real ramifications for certain actions - today, it's undisciplined kids running around, petty slaps on the wrist, the level of administrative burden on teachers is ridiculous, not enough supplies, the theft of funds and equipment. Become a custodian if you want to make some real money.
There is too much of nepotism going on where even if you are a great teacher you are sent to the boondocks while "friends of the administration" are elevated into "you can't touch me status". How is it that people who live in the neighborhoods of certain schools are allowed to work there even if they are just average? Oh, I forgot, they are friends with someone who works at the school, their father sits on the local community board, they are well-known in the community and have other connections, yada, yada, yada............ The union is no "friend" or "advocate" for the children, they are only in it for their membership.......
If you took an average class and stripped out the bottom 10% of the class you might have a noticeable improvement in learning. Instead, I hear today, they have intergrated the bottom 10% of the class with kids that have learning disabilities, because every kid is "equal". For those in the private sector - do you really believe that everyone at your employer is equal. The answer is the same, there are those who rise to the top - always, those who do decent jobs, those who are average and then those who are below par performers. No one is equal.
I would teach if there were a group of kids who really wanted to learn and showed it. Step into a classroom, any classroom, I've yet to see a bunch of kids who rise to the occassion - for that you need honors level and even then, today, the entry bar is set too low - if you can pass a test you can enter. The same could be said of the parents, when they are around, frankly they need to put time into their kids, but they don't, then they complain when the kid doesn't improve or fails and the administration backs them.
A teacher friend of mine said they became a teacher for one thing - the money, security and benefits. Put the 25 in and get out!!!
Sure, I agree with most everything you say here. Which further supports the notion that decent, talented people aren't going to bother taking a job for 50k a year in NYC to put up with all you describe. Which means we will see fewer and fewer good teachers. In other words, not nearly enough good teachers to teach all of the kids that are in schools. Which is a shame because, even in the worst of hoods where so many kids are defiant and disrespectful, you still have some kids who want to learn but are not given a fair opportunity.
i wouldnt say talented people wont take the job.... its just those heading into the field or in the field already have to ask themselves certain questions and be realistic.
do they value a life long pension more than maximum current income?
do they value time away from the job to pursue other interests and aspirations?
do they have other sources of current income...?
can they make do alone on a teachers pay if they werent married or lost a spouse?
these are the questions any profession requires that isnt year round employment and doesnt meet your income needs or wants.
there are many thing unique to compensation in the education field and the structure isnt for everyone despite the fact the system tries to push everyone through the system by default into teaching.
i wouldnt say talented people wont take the job.... its just those heading into the field or in the field already have to ask themselves certain questions and be realistic.
do they value a life long pension more than maximum current income?
do they value time away from the job to pursue other interests and aspirations?
do they have other sources of current income...?
can they make do alone on a teachers pay if they werent married or lost a spouse?
these are the questions any profession requires that isnt year round employment and doesnt meet your income needs or wants.
there are many thing unique to compensation in the education field and the structure isnt for everyone despite the fact the system tries to push everyone through the system by default into teaching.
Once you narrow it down to the following qualities, you have a SEVERELY limited pool of people to choose to teach.
Qualifications needed to be a good teacher in NYC:
1) Be a decent person, not a creep etc
2) Have a master's degree/valid teaching certificate
3) Have some talent for developing and delivering lessons to kids
4) Work hard enough to run a quality classroom with well thought out plans
5) Be married to a wealthier spouse OR
6) Have the good fortune of having legitimate opportunities for other sources of income OR
7) Be willing to live a very meager lifestyle in a small, crappy apartment with roommates.
Once one goes down that list of qualifications, A LOT of folks will simply say "No Thanks". For every housewife married to a 'bread winner' like mathjack who is willing to teach, there are 10,000,000 people who will not teach. The result is a school system that is woefully lacking in quality teachers.
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