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That's interesting because I work in admissions with a lot of West Indian clients, and on our applications there's a separate box for African American and Afro Caribbean, and surprisingly, a lot of the West Indian applicants do ONLY check African American vs. Afro-Caribbean. I was expecting more people to check the Afro-Caribbean box because it's available, but I would say most Black people of any ethnicity (and even including some Afro-Latinos) check African American. I think in general the term has involved in meaning from traditionally being applicable to only Black people in the US whose ancestry goes back to slavery in the South, to just anyone in the US with African ancestry, including people who are West Indian, recent immigrants from Africa, and to a less extent, Afro-Latinos.
As far as people with mixed ethnicities, I think most of them including myself do lean to one side or the other, and that can vary in social settings. While one of my parents is African and the other Black American, I do identify with Black American culture more because that is what I was exposed to more. That doesn't mean though I'm not totally aware and understanding of the nuances of West African culture, but I am to a lesser extent. Some people cling to one ethnicity more than the other if for example, they're around a group of one ethnicity, but then turn around and cling to the other group when they're around them. I know several people for example who are Dominican and Jamaican, and one day they'll be dancing Bachata and speaking Spanish, and then the next day jamming to Reggae and Dancehall speaking Patois. It all depends honestly.
Very interesting! I would've never guessed that. I obviously can't speak to the college admissions process, but in college and now back in NYC, I'd actually find that West Indians would get a little peeved if you called them African American or African American without acknowledging their West Indian roots. Now, I actually have family from the West Indies (one branch of paternal grandparents came over in the 1920s), West African (paternal grandfather, though we never knew him or grew up with that culture), and African American (my mother's family). Because I was raised in the African American culture and that is the largest part of my ethnicity and heritage, I identify as an AA. That said, when asked about my ethnicity by others, I give the fuller explanation provided just now.
I don't disagree. I'd only write that while Puerto Rico is the Caribbean, its not necessarily the West Indies, at least not from my perspective. Now, some people use the terms interchangeably, but many also are referring to the English speaking (largely black) Caribbean when they speak of the West Indies and West Indians.
My point exactly I also don't lump Puerto Ricans and other Caribbean Hispanics as West Indian also, just like how Guyanese and to a lesser extent Belizean people are labeled as "West Indian" despite not geographically being part of the Caribbean. Even a lot of Panamanians and Costa Ricans associate as West Indian too because many of them have Jamaican/Caribbean ancestry. I think also in general most people are inclined to label Haitians and other Francophone Caribbean people, along with Dutch Speaking Caribbean islanders as West Indian before considering Caribbean Hispanics West Indian.
Very interesting! I would've never guessed that. I obviously can't speak to the college admissions process, but in college and now back in NYC, I'd actually find that West Indians would get a little peeved if you called them African American or African American without acknowledging their West Indian roots. Now, I actually have family from the West Indies (one branch of paternal grandparents came over in the 1920s), West African (paternal grandfather, though we never knew him or grew up with that culture), and African American (my mother's family). Because I was raised in the African American culture and that is the largest part of my ethnicity and heritage, I identify as an AA. That said, when asked about my ethnicity by others, I give the fuller explanation provided just now.
Well I don't work for a college I work for an educational nonprofit with middle school kids so it's mostly their parents filling out these applications. The only way we know that they are West Indian is because we also ask on the application for the parent's place of birth, and interestingly enough, you're more inclined to find the parents who are born in the US to Caribbean parents to select Afro-Caribbean vs. African American than the parents who were actually born in the Caribbean. I honestly say that my clients are an outlier, because I agree that most Caribbean people whether they were born here or not prefer to acknowledge their ethnicity first, then their race.
I don't disagree. I'd only write that while Puerto Rico is the Caribbean, its not necessarily the West Indies, at least not from my perspective. Now, some people use the terms interchangeably, but many also are referring to the English speaking (largely black) Caribbean when they speak of the West Indies and West Indians. Also, I note that Rangel has always run as an African American (especially during his earlier runs), though he seems to be acknowledging his Puerto Rican/Latino background more now that the demographics of his district are changing.
Rangel didn't grow up with his father in the house. His father was abusive. His reasons for identifying more with his AA side are personal. Most people that are half PR/AA will just say so. But he has always stated that his father was PR.
True. But, even West Indians without an accent (although, my great grandparents apparently never lost theirs), and their offspring, etc., generally identify as West Indian as opposed to African American and one is able to get a sense generally of who people are/where they live/etc.
But no one would be able to tell what the ethnicity of these people are by casually meeting them.
When I meet a black person with an American accent, I never assume the person's ethnicity.
In fact I get asked mine, so clearly people have no real way of knowing the background of native born Blacks.
Rangel didn't grow up with his father in the house. His father was abusive. His reasons for identifying more with his AA side are personal. Most people that are half PR/AA will just say so. But he has always stated that his father was PR.
His reasons may be personal, but I don't know what these personal reasons are. And identifying as having Puerto Rican ancestry isn't the same as saying one is Latino (but that's opening up a whole different can of worms as there are some people who say you can be Latino if you don't speak Spanish, something I can understand but disagree with). But, I repeat, PR isn't the West Indies so I'm not sure that distinction is helpful for the purpose of this conversation, particularly as Rangel has not really identified as a Latino during his career.
My point exactly I also don't lump Puerto Ricans and other Caribbean Hispanics as West Indian also, just like how Guyanese and to a lesser extent Belizean people are labeled as "West Indian" despite not geographically being part of the Caribbean. Even a lot of Panamanians and Costa Ricans associate as West Indian too because many of them have Jamaican/Caribbean ancestry. I think also in general most people are inclined to label Haitians and other Francophone Caribbean people, along with Dutch Speaking Caribbean islanders as West Indian before considering Caribbean Hispanics West Indian.
Haitians and other Francophone nations are west indian. They are considered the French West Indies.
I say no. West Indians are concentrated really in a handful of neighborhoods. While the same can be said for African Americans, not only do there seem to be more neighborhoods concentrated with African Americans, but more African Americans seem to live in "West Indian communities" than the other way around. At least that's been my observation.
idk because east new York, Brownsville, Bed-Stuy, Harlem, South Jamaica, Hollis, and ST. Albans have a lot of West Indians. Neighborhoods like Flatbush, East Flatbush, Canarsie, not much AAs.
His reasons may be personal, but I don't know what these personal reasons are. And identifying as having Puerto Rican ancestry isn't the same as saying one is Latino (but that's opening up a whole different can of worms as there are some people who say you can be Latino if you don't speak Spanish, something I can understand but disagree with). But, I repeat, PR isn't the West Indies so I'm not sure that distinction is helpful for the purpose of this conversation, particularly as Rangel has not really identified as a Latino during his career.
I think the point trying to be made is that regardless of his personal reasons, an example of someone like Charlie Rangel who has non-Black American ancestry but chooses to identify as only Black American is not uncommon, especially among people in his generation. Most older Black people in NYC with West Indian and Latino roots did assimilate into a general Black American identity because at the time their families came here, there was no hoopla about distinguishing along ethnic lines. If you looked Black, that's it you were slapped with a Black American identity. This is pre-civil rights movement and massive immigration reform we're talking about, so West Indians and Afro-Latinos in general were a much smaller group than they are now in the city. Due to their numbers and the culture of the country back then, they really didn't have the voice or manpower to openly develop a visibly separate ethnic identity here, so most eventually intermarried with Black Americans and assimilated into the culture. Even now while the numbers are here to develop a distinct identity separate from Black Americans (which has definitely occurred), a lot of West Indians and Afro-Latinos by the 2nd and 3rd generation also do assimilate into Black American culture, through intermarriage or not.
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