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Old 04-06-2012, 12:27 PM
 
12 posts, read 19,577 times
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I'm interested in a coop in queens, and will meet the seller agent to make an offer. However, I have listed my questions to the seller agent, and he said "All of your questions answer will be satisfied after agreed upon price in between owner & buyer.". If i don't know these answers, how can I make an offer?

Some of my question/request:
1. What debt-to-income ratio is required?
2. What is included in the maintenance fee? (It would be nice to list each item included, such as real state taxes, underlying mortgage, etc.)
3. Bring all the co-op documents (such as the building rules, proprietary lease or an occupancy agreement) and last 3 years financial statement.
4. Is there a flip tax when re-sell the unit? If yes, how much?
5. Provide a list of what will stay in the unit when we buy it

Any suggestion?
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Old 04-06-2012, 12:51 PM
 
1,319 posts, read 3,735,981 times
Reputation: 808
Quote:
Originally Posted by ceciliaforum View Post
I'm interested in a coop in queens, and will meet the seller agent to make an offer. However, I have listed my questions to the seller agent, and he said "All of your questions answer will be satisfied after agreed upon price in between owner & buyer.". If i don't know these answers, how can I make an offer?

Some of my question/request:
1. What debt-to-income ratio is required?
2. What is included in the maintenance fee? (It would be nice to list each item included, such as real state taxes, underlying mortgage, etc.)
3. Bring all the co-op documents (such as the building rules, proprietary lease or an occupancy agreement) and last 3 years financial statement.
4. Is there a flip tax when re-sell the unit? If yes, how much?
5. Provide a list of what will stay in the unit when we buy it

Any suggestion?
I find it surprising that seller's agent isn't providing this information. My understanding is they should be providing it especially since you are asking for it. Also, are you using a broker as buyer? If not, cases like this are good example to use broker as buyer because you are not paying for it and let your broker handle BS crap like this on your behalf. Few times where you should not get a broker as buyer is when they ask you to do crap like sign exclusive.

Regarding to your original question. I'd play hard ball and tell them, without this information I'm not putting in any bid. So let me know or don't waste my time. I might go far as saying hey by the way, does your customer know that you're saying stupid crap like this so potential buyers like me walk away?

This is still buyers market for most part excluding certain areas that's very hot and very desirable. Buyers still have upper hand.
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Old 04-06-2012, 01:45 PM
 
12 posts, read 19,577 times
Reputation: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by babo111 View Post
I find it surprising that seller's agent isn't providing this information. My understanding is they should be providing it especially since you are asking for it. Also, are you using a broker as buyer? If not, cases like this are good example to use broker as buyer because you are not paying for it and let your broker handle BS crap like this on your behalf. Few times where you should not get a broker as buyer is when they ask you to do crap like sign exclusive.

Regarding to your original question. I'd play hard ball and tell them, without this information I'm not putting in any bid. So let me know or don't waste my time. I might go far as saying hey by the way, does your customer know that you're saying stupid crap like this so potential buyers like me walk away?

This is still buyers market for most part excluding certain areas that's very hot and very desirable. Buyers still have upper hand.
No, I'm not using a buyer, as I know what I need and I have time to search around. It seems that the buyer agent does not cost the buyer any, but it may still affect the final selling price. I read somewhere about the commission:
Buyer agent 2.5%
Seller agent 2.5%
Seller Broker 2.5%

If there is no buyer agent, will the seller agent get 2.5% or total 5%?

I will see how things turn out.

Anyway, I really do not like this seller agent!!!!! At least, he should answer some of my question, not return the ball like this!
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Old 04-06-2012, 04:09 PM
 
2,665 posts, read 4,973,606 times
Reputation: 844
Quote:
Originally Posted by ceciliaforum View Post
No, I'm not using a buyer, as I know what I need and I have time to search around. It seems that the buyer agent does not cost the buyer any, but it may still affect the final selling price. I read somewhere about the commission:
Buyer agent 2.5%
Seller agent 2.5%
Seller Broker 2.5%

If there is no buyer agent, will the seller agent get 2.5% or total 5%?

I will see how things turn out.

Anyway, I really do not like this seller agent!!!!! At least, he should answer some of my question, not return the ball like this!
4%

You are better off using an agent. Doesn't cost you anything.
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Old 04-06-2012, 04:16 PM
 
1,319 posts, read 3,735,981 times
Reputation: 808
Quote:
Originally Posted by ceciliaforum View Post
No, I'm not using a buyer, as I know what I need and I have time to search around. It seems that the buyer agent does not cost the buyer any, but it may still affect the final selling price. I read somewhere about the commission:
Buyer agent 2.5%
Seller agent 2.5%
Seller Broker 2.5%

If there is no buyer agent, will the seller agent get 2.5% or total 5%?

I will see how things turn out.

Anyway, I really do not like this seller agent!!!!! At least, he should answer some of my question, not return the ball like this!
Good luck.

As for your question about agent commission. Usually if buyer doesn't have an agent, that just means seller agent gets the whole thing at agreed percentage and doesn't have to split.

Having a buyer agent cutting into commission with seller agent itself doesn't really affect final selling prices. Because agents would rather sell it than trying to haggle for say 10k so they can make couple hundred more and possibly risk loosing a sale when thousands of commission are at stake

What really affects the pricing comes from negotiation and going back n forth as well as the items you mentioned. Also this is really good question to ask in Real Estate section of city data
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Old 04-06-2012, 06:07 PM
 
12 posts, read 19,577 times
Reputation: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by babo111 View Post
Good luck.

As for your question about agent commission. Usually if buyer doesn't have an agent, that just means seller agent gets the whole thing at agreed percentage and doesn't have to split.

Having a buyer agent cutting into commission with seller agent itself doesn't really affect final selling prices. Because agents would rather sell it than trying to haggle for say 10k so they can make couple hundred more and possibly risk loosing a sale when thousands of commission are at stake

What really affects the pricing comes from negotiation and going back n forth as well as the items you mentioned. Also this is really good question to ask in Real Estate section of city data

Thank you. It's a good idea to post in RE section!
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Old 04-06-2012, 08:05 PM
 
Location: NY,NY
2,898 posts, read 8,758,682 times
Reputation: 2038
Quote:
Originally Posted by ceciliaforum View Post
I'm interested in a coop in queens, and will meet the seller agent to make an offer. However, I have listed my questions to the seller agent, and he said "All of your questions answer will be satisfied after agreed upon price in between owner & buyer.". If i don't know these answers, how can I make an offer?

Some of my question/request:
1. What debt-to-income ratio is required?
2. What is included in the maintenance fee? (It would be nice to list each item included, such as real state taxes, underlying mortgage, etc.)
3. Bring all the co-op documents (such as the building rules, proprietary lease or an occupancy agreement) and last 3 years financial statement.
4. Is there a flip tax when re-sell the unit? If yes, how much?
5. Provide a list of what will stay in the unit when we buy it

Any suggestion?
Items, 1, 2, and 3, may be of concern, but are not necesary in order to make an OFFER!

Only Items 4 and 5 can be relevant to Price negotiation.

An "offer" is not an agreement to purchase. It is simply an agreement on the purchase price in the event you choose to begin the purchase process, that is execute a Contract (Purchase Agreement).

Having the above information, can help you to decide whether you ultimately wish to purchase the coop, but it will have little effect upon the MARKET PRICE, which is based upon what the market has determined!

After, the 'offer' has been made and accepted, then a Purchase Agreement s/b drawn by the Seller's Attorney then reviewed by the Purchaser and his/her Attorney.

Prior to signing the Purchase Agreement you can request such information (which w/b a part of your 'Due Diligence'), or

You can have relevant provision within the Purchase Agreement that such things be provided and by what date.

A Price can be negotiated based upon KNOWN and UNKNOWN facts, with provision as to what manner "unknown" facts (such as the Flip Tax) will effect the Purchase Price, if at all.

Generally, unless the broker/agent is familiar with the coop, they do not have such information readily available; and very often neither will the Seller. (Who knows, maybe the agent started yesterday.)

The information you list above can be obtained by reviewing the Coop Agreement/Red Herring, Proprietary Lease, and the Coop By-Laws. Which ALL s/b reviewed and considered as a part of your Due Diligence.

In addition, to the Purchaser reviewing the information, the information s/b reviewed by a COMPETENT professional. If your attorney has the necessary knowledge and experience to perform proper due diligence then you can utilize his/her expertise.

Unfortunatrly, MOST attorneys are not so knowledeagle. Such requires an expert attorney experienced with real estate/coop/condo review. In other words, an attorney who does this everyday AND is experienced in LITIGATING such matters. Again, most attorneys do NOT have such experience.

Be aware, ignorant Purchasers and Sellers utilize incompetent, unknowledeable, and inexperienced attorneys ALL the time; and live to regret it.

****

In any event, your offer can always be revised, before and/or AFTER the Purchase Agreement is signed!!

The question is at what penalty? A smart purchaser and/or a good attorney will make allowance for such an event within the provisions of the Purchase Agreement along with any, IF ANY, penalty. Of course, such will be negotiated and agreed upon prior to the parties executing the Purchase Agreement.

If you want the apartment, then simply negotiate Price, in regard to ALL the ifs, ands, and buts. For example, if you low ball the price, based upon the lack of information, and state this, then that provides incentive for the Seller and broker/agent to get on the ball.

****

In could take a couple of weeks or more, for all the documents to properly review the documents to be gathered and provided by the Seller, then reviewed by the Purchaser. For example, regarding an older coop, the Seller could have lived in the coop for a decade or two (perhaps longer); the person c/b unconcerned and unaware of coop matters, simply writes a check every month. Consequently, w/b unable to personaly answer such questions, and a disorganized person w/n have the documents readily available.

In such case, the documents/information w/h to be requested by the Seller, either from the coop board and/or the coop's attorney. This process could take from a few days to a few weeks.

****

So, yes, you should make an offer. Then be dilligent in the Purchase Agreement process.
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Old 04-06-2012, 08:07 PM
 
Location: NY,NY
2,898 posts, read 8,758,682 times
Reputation: 2038
Quote:
Originally Posted by ceciliaforum View Post
No, I'm not using a buyer, as I know what I need and I have time to search around. It seems that the buyer agent does not cost the buyer any, but it may still affect the final selling price. I read somewhere about the commission:
Buyer agent 2.5%
Seller agent 2.5%
Seller Broker 2.5%

If there is no buyer agent, will the seller agent get 2.5% or total 5%?

I will see how things turn out.

Anyway, I really do not like this seller agent!!!!! At least, he should answer some of my question, not return the ball like this!
Quote:
Originally Posted by babo111 View Post
Good luck.

As for your question about agent commission. Usually if buyer doesn't have an agent, that just means seller agent gets the whole thing at agreed percentage and doesn't have to split.

Having a buyer agent cutting into commission with seller agent itself doesn't really affect final selling prices. Because agents would rather sell it than trying to haggle for say 10k so they can make couple hundred more and possibly risk loosing a sale when thousands of commission are at stake

What really affects the pricing comes from negotiation and going back n forth as well as the items you mentioned. Also this is really good question to ask in Real Estate section of city data

You should do more homework!

Generally, the Broker's fee is 6%, which is paid by the Seller to the Seller's Broker/Agent. The Seller's Broker is responsible for finding a Purchaser for the Seller.

If the Seller's Broker can find a Purchaser w/o assistance from another broker/agent, then the Seller's Broker is entitled to 100% of the (6%) fee, paid by the Seller.

The manner in which the Seller's Broker *splits* the fee with the Broker's Agent (if there is an Agent) is of no concern to Seller Nor Purchaser. The 'split' can be whatever the Broker has decided and offered to his employee PRIOR to any involvement with the selling/purchasing parties.

The *split* is a business arrangement between Employer (Broker) and Employee (Agent).

The little comprehend fact (by Purchasers) is that *standard* Brokers/Agents do NOT represent Purchasers/Buyers. *Standard* Broker/Agents are ALWAYS paid by Seller, and consequently their interest is ALWAYS with the Seller. The greater the Price, the more ALL Brokers/Agents involved with the transaction will earn.

In the above *standard*, there is NO such thing as a Buyer's agent. It is a complete misnomer! The 'Buyer' pays NOONE, and consequently there is NOONE acting in the Buyer/Purchaser's interest. I repeat NOONE!

Both the Seller's Agent and the so-called and so-thought 'Buyer's Broker/Agent' work in conjunction and often collusion to bring about a transaction which will be mutually and maximally beneficial to ALL Brokers/Agents involved.

Sometimes, in order to facilate a transaction, the the percentage of the 6% fee paid by the Seller, can be negotiated by both BROKERS involved. This will sometimes occur when the Seller refuses to drop the price, and the Purchaser cannot and/or refuses to meet the Seller's price.

Broker's will sometimes negotiate between themselves to drop a point or two off the Seller's fee. The Seller, now paying 4% (rather than 6%) is now incented to lower the price by 2%, which can very well make the deal happen.

The *split* which the Agent receives from his employer, the Broker is rarely negotiated, but can be dictated to the Agent, depending on the prior ageement between Broker and employee/agent.

****

The exception to all that is an individual called and, indeed, is, accurately, a "Buyer's Agent". This individual is paid by and works in the interest of the Purchaser/Buyer. The Buyer's Agent is retained to locate properties which meet the Purchaser's criteria, to negotiate Price, and to facilitate ALL Due Diligence in the interest of the Purchaser/Buyer.

In such a *non-stardard* circumstance, the Buyer's Agent is paid a fee negotiated by Purchaser/Buyer and the Buyer's Agent.

NONE of the 6% fee, paid by the Seller, is paid to the Buyer's Agent! Buyer's Agents, are relatively new inventions, created to compensate for the for the poorly served interest of Purchasers/Buyers in residential real estate transactions. They serve a varied purpose, that is to save Purchasers time and effort, as well as to insure that Purchasers pay a fair and right price.

****

Btw, the fee paid by the Seller is rarely ever split evenly. The Seller's Broker usually takes the larger share, which is then spit with his agent, if any. Depending upon the circumstance, generally, the Agent receives a larger share than his Broker. The Broker ultimately earns more, as he/her receives a share of ALL transaction made through multiple agents involved with the Broker's office.

****

Lastly, if you, as the Purchaser has found a property w/o the aid of a broker/agent acting to locate properties for your review, then it is perfectly acceptable to request/and/or demand that the Purchase Price be lowered by the commensurate amount which w/h have been split and provided to the broker who w/h brought you to the transaction.

In other words, if the *standard* split is 4%/2%, then you are entitled to a 2% discount. No reason for the Seller's Broker to receive a bonanza, because you found the property by your own effort.
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Old 04-06-2012, 08:22 PM
 
2,665 posts, read 4,973,606 times
Reputation: 844
Co-ops are wack btw. Save for a condo and get yourself a qualified agent to find listings. This what they do for a living, you are not gonna be as good, believe that. You ain't saving any money either. The seller most likely won't give you any discounts just because you came without an agent. This is prolly the biggest purchase in your life, let the pros do the work.

Last edited by OleSchoolFool; 04-06-2012 at 08:35 PM..
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Old 04-07-2012, 09:26 AM
 
12 posts, read 19,577 times
Reputation: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by jcoltrane View Post
Items, 1, 2, and 3, may be of concern, but are not necesary in order to make an OFFER!

Only Items 4 and 5 can be relevant to Price negotiation.

An "offer" is not an agreement to purchase. It is simply an agreement on the purchase price in the event you choose to begin .....

So, yes, you should make an offer. Then be dilligent in the Purchase Agreement process.
Thank you so much for your help!

The seller agent asked us to bring check, W2 and Pre-approval from a bank. Should I do so before making the offer?

Last edited by ceciliaforum; 04-07-2012 at 09:36 AM..
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