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Old 04-17-2012, 04:39 PM
 
Location: NYC
2,223 posts, read 5,157,072 times
Reputation: 1097

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Quote:
Originally Posted by hilltopjay View Post
The class of people living in an area makes all the difference and determines if an area is desirable or not. People make neighborhoods what they are, nothing more, nothing less.
I am not against neighborhood improvement. I don't agree that it can only happen via gentrification. You yourself said that people in the pre-crack era maintained decent living situations despite poverty. So affordable housing did not attract trashy people then. Why are things so different now?
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Old 04-17-2012, 05:01 PM
 
2,503 posts, read 4,099,162 times
Reputation: 1947
Quote:
Originally Posted by queensgrl View Post
I am not against neighborhood improvement. I don't agree that it can only happen via gentrification. You yourself said that people in the pre-crack era maintained decent living situations despite poverty. So affordable housing did not attract trashy people then. Why are things so different now?
It's different now for many reasons which I won't go into because that would require me to write a book on the subject.

The bottom line why things have changed is the overall street sub-culture in which these undesirables subscribe to.

You can't help people unless people want to be helped. You can't pour billions of dollars in a welfare system expect poverty to go away. Ultimately the sole person is responsible for their fate. Not the government or the next door neighbor. Everyone one has the free will to do whatever they please. Once a person digs themself in a hole, it is very hard to climb out. By then they are too far gone. only a lucky few will find the light and climb out. The rest continue their ways which influence their offsprings as well as associates and friends. It's a never ending cycle.
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Old 04-17-2012, 05:24 PM
 
Location: Bronx, NY
5,727 posts, read 19,402,053 times
Reputation: 2350
Quote:
Originally Posted by scatman View Post
That would've been a quiet year in the 1980s! (LOL!)
Yeah but that says more about how bad Mott Haven really was.
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Old 04-17-2012, 05:35 PM
 
Location: NYC
2,223 posts, read 5,157,072 times
Reputation: 1097
Quote:
Originally Posted by hilltopjay View Post
It's different now for many reasons which I won't go into because that would require me to write a book on the subject.

The bottom line why things have changed is the overall street sub-culture in which these undesirables subscribe to.

You can't help people unless people want to be helped. You can't pour billions of dollars in a welfare system expect poverty to go away. Ultimately the sole person is responsible for their fate. Not the government or the next door neighbor. Everyone one has the free will to do whatever they please. Once a person digs themself in a hole, it is very hard to climb out. By then they are too far gone. only a lucky few will find the light and climb out. The rest continue their ways which influence their offsprings as well as associates and friends. It's a never ending cycle.
I would like for Hilltop Jay to describe what he means by affordable housing because maybe we are on different pages. Here's a few examples:

Hilltop Village, Queens
Parkchester, Bronx
Starrett City, Brooklyn
Esplanade Gardens, Harlem
Rivercross, Roosevelt Island

All established to be affordable for working families. There is a difference between the people living in these places and what Jay describes as "trash"

Please explain, Jay.
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Old 04-18-2012, 08:03 AM
 
2,503 posts, read 4,099,162 times
Reputation: 1947
Quote:
Originally Posted by queensgrl View Post
I would like for Hilltop Jay to describe what he means by affordable housing because maybe we are on different pages. Here's a few examples:

Hilltop Village, Queens
Parkchester, Bronx
Starrett City, Brooklyn
Esplanade Gardens, Harlem
Rivercross, Roosevelt Island

All established to be affordable for working families. There is a difference between the people living in these places and what Jay describes as "trash"

Please explain, Jay.
To tell you the truth, I know nothing about those complexes you mentioned above so I can't comment on them. All I know is that any new "affordable housing" construction being built in the Bronx caters to ghetto low income people. The term "affordable housing" is a buzz word and really code word for subsidized housing. None of these new complexes cater to MIDDLE CLASS folks. Middle class people don't qualify for Section 8 or Welfare. Middle class individuals earn minimum $60K+ a year. Middle class households earn minimum $100K a year. None of these so-called "affordable housing" caters to their needs. And the income criteria they ask for proves that.

The Bronx for instance, needs more middle class households to plant their roots in the neighborhood in order to diversify the income demographic living in the area. These new buildings do nothing to attract that type of clientele. They simply look to rent to the same ghetto low income clientele that's plagued the Bronx for 60 years. If you read other threads on this board about those "affordable housing" complexes, the tenants are already throwing garbage out the window, blasting music, defacing and vandalizing this new building, empty liquor bottles in the hallways, etc. Those issues wouldn't happen if those complexes rented to solid middle income families. But since they prefer to rent to ghetto trash, watch those new buildings turn into the same conditions and issues as the Projects.
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Old 04-18-2012, 08:14 AM
 
1,248 posts, read 3,945,995 times
Reputation: 879
Quote:
Originally Posted by hilltopjay View Post
To tell you the truth, I know nothing about those complexes you mentioned above so I can't comment on them. All I know is that any new "affordable housing" construction being built in the Bronx caters to ghetto low income people. The term "affordable housing" is a buzz word and really code word for subsidized housing. None of these new complexes cater to MIDDLE CLASS folks. Middle class people don't qualify for Section 8 or Welfare. Middle class individuals earn minimum $60K+ a year. Middle class households earn minimum $100K a year. None of these so-called "affordable housing" caters to their needs. And the income criteria they ask for proves that.

The Bronx for instance, needs more middle class households to plant their roots in the neighborhood in order to diversify the income demographic living in the area. These new buildings do nothing to attract that type of clientele. They simply look to rent to the same ghetto low income clientele that's plagued the Bronx for 60 years. If you read other threads on this board about those "affordable housing" complexes, the tenants are already throwing garbage out the window, blasting music, defacing and vandalizing this new building, empty liquor bottles in the hallways, etc. Those issues wouldn't happen if those complexes rented to solid middle income families. But since they prefer to rent to ghetto trash, watch those new buildings turn into the same conditions and issues as the Projects.
What buildings & neighborhoods of the Bronx are these? Even in the south bronx I don't see that (near the 3rd ave & Willis Ave Bridges on the Bronx side have become much nicer), and eastern parts of the Bronx (along the Hutchinson Pkway & I95) are solidly middle class but 'too far' for any young hipster to move to
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Old 04-18-2012, 08:26 AM
 
2,503 posts, read 4,099,162 times
Reputation: 1947
Quote:
Originally Posted by NickL28 View Post
What buildings & neighborhoods of the Bronx are these? Even in the south bronx I don't see that (near the 3rd ave & Willis Ave Bridges on the Bronx side have become much nicer), and eastern parts of the Bronx (along the Hutchinson Pkway & I95) are solidly middle class but 'too far' for any young hipster to move to
Do a search on this board and you'll find it. The buildings from the outside looks great but the type of people they are renting to are degrading the buildings. And that's a problem.
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Old 04-18-2012, 08:28 AM
 
Location: The Ranch in Olam Haba
23,713 posts, read 29,153,954 times
Reputation: 9985
Quote:
Considering that in 2012 I can stand on my stoop and watch Zombie-fied 20-something-year olds purchase crack on the corner and then proceed to sit on the stoops of other houses on the block (none of them live on my block) and smoke said crack in broad day light on a 75 degree day, I can only imagine what it was like in the 80's, lol. Smh.
Not much difference in the 80's. People sat on stoops drinking quart bottles of Coqui 900 which was known as the liquid lude (Quaalude).People sat on stoops smoking weed.People sat on stoops smoking dust. If the cops came by (big IF), they either smashed all the bottles or handed out $50 smoking fines.
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Old 04-18-2012, 08:30 AM
 
Location: The Ranch in Olam Haba
23,713 posts, read 29,153,954 times
Reputation: 9985
Quote:
Do a search on this board and you'll find it. The buildings from the outside looks great but the type of people they are renting to are degrading the buildings. And that's a problem.
Lets try that again. The renters are not the real problem, its their uncontrolable children that causes most of the issues.
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Old 04-18-2012, 08:35 AM
 
2,503 posts, read 4,099,162 times
Reputation: 1947
Quote:
Originally Posted by NeilVA View Post
Lets try that again. The renters are not the real problem, its their uncontrolable children that causes most of the issues.
That's true to but kids are a reflection of their parents. Poor parenting = ghetto/unruly kids.
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