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Now we've been here 3 years and I thought it might be helpful to others thinking about moving here if I updated my list a bit. Please add to this if you've recently just moved here and finally settled in as well.
I decided to post this because we started out, as most new New Yorkers, as wide-eyed excited participants in the Greatest City on Earth. And it still is that, for sure, but after a few years it looks like we're leaving. Not in anger and not in disgust. Frankly, I could live here the rest of my life and be happy; my wife on the other hand, could not. Our lifestyle is expensive (relative to the rest of the country) and full of sacrifice (little tiny apartment, no car, horrible weather, etc). I never thought I'd reach a point where I'd even consider a move away from NYC, but here we are. I'm not excited about moving, but I'm not fighting it either. Why? Read on...
These are the same headings as my post back in 2009, but updated content.
- NYC is wildly expensive. Prohibitively so. If you're not making at least $xxx,000, you'll die in the streets in days. Depends on what kind of lifestyle you want here. We've lived on the Upper West Side, sent our kid to a private school (more about that later), and eat pretty well. We've learned that this lifestyle really does cost about $250k a year to maintain (that's AFTER taxes; thanks to a combined 48% marginal tax rate between city/state/federal at our tax bracket). But you can easily live in Brooklyn or Queens on a lot less and be perfectly happy, live near the subway and killer restaurants/shops, and likely never be a victim of a crime.
- Schools? Ha. The public schools are horrible and the private schools are impossible to get in to. You needed to be on a waiting list 3 years ago and gosh I hope your dad is a Senator. Completely wrong. We got into a private school on a single phone call/visit and have learned over the years that if you can pay the fee, aren't a complete lunatic, and can sell yourselves well in an interview, you can get your kid into most of the private schools in Manhattan (except maybe the top super-schools like Trinity or Dalton). One thing that absolutely must be said here is the quality and costs of the private schools. We love our school; great education, great opportunities, great families, etc. What is becoming more and more impossible to sleep with at night is the $35k/yr pricetag for a 9 year old. I used to justify it by saying we were buying our way into a better opportunity for our daughter's future (which is still likely true), but I've really come around on the idea that $400,000 for a pre-college education isn't worth the higher odds of getting into an Ivy-quality university. I've met an awful lot of Ivy League graduates (adults) since I moved to NYC and can't say as a group that they impress me any more than the U of Texas graduates I knew back home. If your kid needs to be an investment banker, they need to be on the track we've been paying for. If they want to do just about anything else, save the money.
- You will live in a shoebox. Get used to being able to touch all four walls of your bedroom without having to move your pivot foot. 3 years ago, I happily posted that this was false and that we were thrilled to be living in a 990 sf apartment. I had said "it turns out, this is all the space you need." I was wrong. Over the years, my wife and I sure would have liked to put an exercise bike in our apartment, but there's literally no place to put it. The nearest gym is 8 blocks away. My wife terribly misses having a garden, even a small one. Our kitchen is a joke (4 ft x 7 ft) which wasn't a problem when we were eating out every night, but once you settle in to the city and start cooking for yourself again, it sure would have been nice to have enough space in a kitchen for both a fridge AND a stove. Remember we're paying $6,050 a month for this spot. I used to say I could die in this apartment, but we really can't wait to have just a little more room, stop sharing walls with other peoples' babies and pets, and have a garage. I swore I'd never drive again and love the subway, but when it's 95 degrees and humid it sure would be nice to get into an air conditioned car instead of standing for 15 minutes in a tunnel waiting for the subway.
- Office space will run you $3,000/mo for a one man private space anywhere between, say, LES and Inwood. This was true. One of the best things that ever happened to me, happened in NYC -- I sold my business late last year for more money than I ever thought I'd get. Because of the expensive lease I had to sign in Midtown Manhattan, we're now in a small battle over who should pay for the breaking of that lease (by the people who bought my business). That being said, if you're looking to grow and sell your business, I highly recommend moving to NY. I would have never sold my business if we stayed in Houston.
- Taxes. You don't even know what taxes ARE, buddy. You'll see maybe 40% of your paycheck by the time she takes her bite. Holy crap. When I first posted about this, I was thinking taxes would be not-so-bad. They are. Like I said, we sold our business last year. The NYC/NYS taxes (alone!) would have bought us a house (a really nice one). I am actually all for paying taxes and paying my share. It just really hurts when you write a check in the high six-digits and start to wonder what exactly you're getting for that money. (You don't need to answer that, I know what I'm getting for my money; it just hurts writing that check). As I said above, last year we were in a combined 48% tax bracket.
- Watch your back, Jack. Everyone in this city is trying to hose you. Even if it's in writing, good luck...you're gonna need it. Nah. One of the things I've learned over the years is that for the most part, NYers are no different than anyone else. Yes, we're faster here. Yes, we're more direct here. Yes, we dress better. But people are people. I don't feel like people were trying to screw us or con us or whatever you want to call it. If anything, I've found most NYers to be incredibly honest and helpful.
- NYers are so rude. Totally insane. One thing I will always love about NYC is the attitude and speed. NYers are not rude at all, we just don't like wasting time with idle chitchat with strangers. I love that. I want a burger, you want my money, let's exchange and go about our day. I've never once felt like anyone was rude to me here.
- Red tape. Get used to it. You think it's bad in France? Wait til you move to NY. When we first moved to town, I remember thinking how easy everything was to do here (getting a drivers license, setting up utils, filing registrations). For the most part, I still agree with that. What I really can't seem to get used to is the endless permits and registrations needed to do just about anything here. If you want to start a business, buy property, or even just recycle a computer, there does seem to be a lot more redtape than I remember there being in Houston.
I'm sure this post reads as yet another transplant that lost interest (which is a fair statement to a certain extent). I still believe everyone should move here at some point in their lives. It really is the Greatest City on Earth. Everything is here. The food is incredible. The subway is fantastic. You can walk to everything, even if it's on the other side of Manhattan. But ultimately, if you're from somewhere else, you will start to wonder why you're paying 40% more here for a lot less. Is it the walkability? The stores? The restaurants? The schools? Or is it just knowing you live in the Capital of the Universe? For a lot of people, that's enough. For others, it's fun for a while and makes for a killer story, but then it's time to go back to a backyard, a garage, first world climate control (the lack of central a/c in most of NY is mindboggling in 2012) and a day where you don't have to dodge endless urine puddles and doggie mines.
Thanks for the update. Interesting change in perspective. Ten years ago I also went through a first year of wide-eyed transplant amazement. While I still like it here for the most part, I definitely don't feel that way anymore. However, I'm not too interested in going back to where I grew up and I can't really think of anywhere else in the US I would want to live. So I might just take the good with the bad and stay here.
Thank you so much for the post. Can you break down the 48% in taxes?
Sure, again this was marginal, not effective.
Marginal federal rate of 35%, City rate of 3.7%, State rate of 8.97%. That'll go down a little this year with the end of the state/city "millionaire's tax surcharge."
Thanks for the update. Interesting change in perspective. Ten years ago I also went through a first year of wide-eyed transplant amazement. While I still like it here for the most part, I definitely don't feel that way anymore. However, I'm not too interested in going back to where I grew up and I can't really think of anywhere else in the US I would want to live. So I might just take the good with the bad and stay here.
I have no interest in going back to Texas (where I'm from) and would much prefer to stay here as well. That being said, my wife doesn't agree with those sentiments, so we're either moving back to Austin or Northern California (which now appears oddly cheap after 3 years in NYC).
If it were up to me, we'd stay here and learn to deal with the 'bad' because I still feel the 'good' outweighs it.
This is a really perceptive and helpful post. We're New Yorkers (my wife more than I) but have lived around the country (either as singles or together) and have many of these thoughts almost daily - it's helpful to have someone voice the same concerns.
As someone who is in accounting and does payroll, I have been on here repeating myself over and over of how much taxes eat out of a paycheck here. That's not even counting if you have deductions such as 401K, health insurance, etc. These are things most people looking to move here do not take into consideration when they say "oh we'll be making xx amount".
Yes, apartments here are tiny (at least in Manhattan) and do not come with all of the amenities you get elsewhere. I went to Dallas in April and did some apartment searching. I was shocked when I saw what I could get out there for $650-850 a month. I was looking at 1BRs that were 750sf, had a washer dryer, parking, swimming pools, gym, parks, and some were townhouses! And I would have been making the same salary if not more out there than I was here. It almost made me cry.
The only reason I'm still here is because I didn't have ample time to go on all the interviews I wanted and I received a better offer from a job here.
As someone who is in accounting and does payroll, I have been on here repeating myself over and over of how much taxes eat out of a paycheck here. That's not even counting if you have deductions such as 401K, health insurance, etc. These are things most people looking to move here do not take into consideration when they say "oh we'll be making xx amount".
Yes, apartments here are tiny (at least in Manhattan) and do not come with all of the amenities you get elsewhere. I went to Dallas in April and did some apartment searching. I was shocked when I saw what I could get out there for $650-850 a month. I was looking at 1BRs that were 750sf, had a washer dryer, parking, swimming pools, gym, parks, and some were townhouses! And I would have been making the same salary if not more out there than I was here. It almost made me cry.
The only reason I'm still here is because I didn't have ample time to go on all the interviews I wanted and I received a better offer from a job here.
It really is crazy what you can get somewhere else....it's depressing. What they get away with charging here for rent is insane.
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