ghettos or hoods? (New York, Buffalo, Rochester: real estate, apartment, rentals)

[BxGyrl]

Originally Posted by SeventhFloor

To me Flatbush is no different that Fordham Road/Grand Concourse area

I would disagree. I think Flatbush is on average safer than Fordham. The thing about Flatbush is you have a wide range of incomes from Section 8/public assistance dependent, working poor to business owners, self-employed, civil servants, homeowners, and over the last few years, increasingly transplants making 6 figures. You have very stable rental buildings, co-ops, and many quiet, well kept blocks with private homes. You also have a lot of mom and pop shops and take out places, as well as newer sit down restaurants and bars.

In Fordham you generally have working class to poor to extremely poor; a good proportion of the people are on public assistance, and many live in shelters. The drug use is very much in your face in parts; the Aqueduct Walk, Valentine Ave., and the areas around 194th St. are full of addicts and dealers. I saw people smoking crack a few weeks ago right in broad daylight. There are no wealthy people there and if there are people making high 5 figures/low 6 figures, they live in Fordham Hill Oval or are a homeowner of one of those large houses on Davidson, Grand Ave., etc., though those blocks are still shady.

I know both neighborhoods very well and I’d take Flatbush over Fordham any day. Flatbush isn’t without problems but I see it improving while Fordham is getting poorer, more segregated, and more unsafe. It’s gotten to the point I don’t like walking down certain stretches after dark and I never felt that way before until maybe the last year or two.

[BxGyrl]

Originally Posted by Robert.Dinero

I agree 100%, the Bronx has more bad neighborhoods and barely any gentrified area (coming soon though) but a bad neighborhood in Brooklyn is much worse than a bad neighborhood in the Bronx.

The thing is, there are fewer and fewer neighborhoods like that left in Brooklyn. A lot of it is gentrified or starting to gentrify. To be clear, a lot of Brooklyn that many people write off only do so because it’s Black. Large swaths of Flatbush, East Flatbush, Canarsie, even Crown Heights, are solidly middle class with high homeownership levels. I’ve also seen hipsters and transplants as far as Buffalo Ave. and Ralph Ave. at night.

I wouldn’t say all of the Bronx is like ENY or Brownsville (who are duking it out with Hunt’s Point, Mott Haven, and East Tremont for dubious distinctions), but we can say the Bronx south of Fordham and west of the Bronx River is almost solidly poor with low performing schools, substandard housing, high unemployment rates, drug issues, and street violence. It’s also hypersegregated. In fact, in areas like University Heights, Fordham, and Bedford Park, it’s actually getting more segregated and poorer, not gentrified. The city has been concentrating poverty for generations, neglecting its citizens, and setting them up for failure here.

[BxGyrl]

Originally Posted by BugsyPal

Driving around SI for Thanksgiving holiday weekend and sadly have to say much of North Shore is firmly becoming a hood. Certain parts of New Brighton, West New Brighton, Port Richmond, Mariners Harbor and Arlington have been ghettos for years. However those areas are expanding beyond once traditional borders to claim more and more of surrounding area.

Driving along Bay Street towards Hylan it's sad to see what's happened to Rosebank. Won't be long before that place tips and becomes firmly a hood as well.

Can confirm. I don’t know specific areas, but what’s happening now is that as Harlem, the Lower Eastside, Bed-Stuy, Crown Heights, and other areas gentrify, a lot of the people who were displaced are going to Staten Island– or conversely, to the Bronx. They’re going to Park Hill, Bay Street, Mariner’s Harbor, Stapleton, and other parts.

[SeventhFloor]

Originally Posted by BxGyrl

I would disagree. I think Flatbush is on average safer than Fordham. The thing about Flatbush is you have a wide range of incomes from Section 8/public assistance dependent, working poor to business owners, self-employed, civil servants, homeowners, and over the last few years, increasingly transplants making 6 figures. You have very stable rental buildings, co-ops, and many quiet, well kept blocks with private homes. You also have a lot of mom and pop shops and take out places, as well as newer sit down restaurants and bars.

In Fordham you generally have working class to poor to extremely poor; a good proportion of the people are on public assistance, and many live in shelters. The drug use is very much in your face in parts; the Aqueduct Walk, Valentine Ave., and the areas around 194th St. are full of addicts and dealers. I saw people smoking crack a few weeks ago right in broad daylight. There are no wealthy people there and if there are people making high 5 figures/low 6 figures, they live in Fordham Hill Oval or are a homeowner of one of those large houses on Davidson, Grand Ave., etc., though those blocks are still shady.

I know both neighborhoods very well and I’d take Flatbush over Fordham any day. Flatbush isn’t without problems but I see it improving while Fordham is getting poorer, more segregated, and more unsafe. It’s gotten to the point I don’t like walking down certain stretches after dark and I never felt that way before until maybe the last year or two.

I meant in terms of aesthetics. But since you spoke about crime, quite a bit of activity still goes on in Flatbush and although it's considerably more gentrified than Fordham, the neighborhood still has a decent amount of violent crime.

[Foamposite]

Originally Posted by BxGyrl

I would disagree. I think Flatbush is on average safer than Fordham. The thing about Flatbush is you have a wide range of incomes from Section 8/public assistance dependent, working poor to business owners, self-employed, civil servants, homeowners, and over the last few years, increasingly transplants making 6 figures. You have very stable rental buildings, co-ops, and many quiet, well kept blocks with private homes. You also have a lot of mom and pop shops and take out places, as well as newer sit down restaurants and bars.

In Fordham you generally have working class to poor to extremely poor; a good proportion of the people are on public assistance, and many live in shelters. The drug use is very much in your face in parts; the Aqueduct Walk, Valentine Ave., and the areas around 194th St. are full of addicts and dealers. I saw people smoking crack a few weeks ago right in broad daylight. There are no wealthy people there and if there are people making high 5 figures/low 6 figures, they live in Fordham Hill Oval or are a homeowner of one of those large houses on Davidson, Grand Ave., etc., though those blocks are still shady.

I know both neighborhoods very well and I’d take Flatbush over Fordham any day. Flatbush isn’t without problems but I see it improving while Fordham is getting poorer, more segregated, and more unsafe. It’s gotten to the point I don’t like walking down certain stretches after dark and I never felt that way before until maybe the last year or two.

Aren't Davidson and Grand University Heights?

[yodel]

Originally Posted by BxGyrl

I would disagree. I think Flatbush is on average safer than Fordham. The thing about Flatbush is you have a wide range of incomes from Section 8/public assistance dependent, working poor to business owners, self-employed, civil servants, homeowners, and over the last few years, increasingly transplants making 6 figures. You have very stable rental buildings, co-ops, and many quiet, well kept blocks with private homes. You also have a lot of mom and pop shops and take out places, as well as newer sit down restaurants and bars.

In Fordham you generally have working class to poor to extremely poor; a good proportion of the people are on public assistance, and many live in shelters. The drug use is very much in your face in parts; the Aqueduct Walk, Valentine Ave., and the areas around 194th St. are full of addicts and dealers. I saw people smoking crack a few weeks ago right in broad daylight. There are no wealthy people there and if there are people making high 5 figures/low 6 figures, they live in Fordham Hill Oval or are a homeowner of one of those large houses on Davidson, Grand Ave., etc., though those blocks are still shady.

I know both neighborhoods very well and I’d take Flatbush over Fordham any day. Flatbush isn’t without problems but I see it improving while Fordham is getting poorer, more segregated, and more unsafe. It’s gotten to the point I don’t like walking down certain stretches after dark and I never felt that way before until maybe the last year or two.

I don't feel that about Fordham. I've been living close by since the early 2000s and at that time, you saw transactions all the time right out in the open, it was way worse back then. But it's poor for sure but safer than it was. I've always thought Fordham had a lot of potential though - lots of Victorian houses (most in need of a lot of work) and great transportation. Only the very rich can afford a house in any decent area in Brooklyn, and even the south Bronx is so much more expensive (but you can argue even worse quality of life).

[yodel]

Originally Posted by BxGyrl

The thing is, there are fewer and fewer neighborhoods like that left in Brooklyn. A lot of it is gentrified or starting to gentrify. To be clear, a lot of Brooklyn that many people write off only do so because it’s Black. Large swaths of Flatbush, East Flatbush, Canarsie, even Crown Heights, are solidly middle class with high homeownership levels. I’ve also seen hipsters and transplants as far as Buffalo Ave. and Ralph Ave. at night.

I wouldn’t say all of the Bronx is like ENY or Brownsville (who are duking it out with Hunt’s Point, Mott Haven, and East Tremont for dubious distinctions), but we can say the Bronx south of Fordham and west of the Bronx River is almost solidly poor with low performing schools, substandard housing, high unemployment rates, drug issues, and street violence. It’s also hypersegregated. In fact, in areas like University Heights, Fordham, and Bedford Park, it’s actually getting more segregated and poorer, not gentrified. The city has been concentrating poverty for generations, neglecting its citizens, and setting them up for failure here.

I'm in Bedford Park and I haven't gotten the impression that it's gotten poorer, but affordable housing construction is going to bring down median income and there's more of that planned. New construction is what worries me most about the future. I don't think people realize that this kind of density exists outside of Manhattan - it's probably one of the top five most dense neighborhoods in the entire city. I'm not against density or I wouldn't have moved here in the first place but they're planning several tall residential buildings as a result of upzoning without (as far as I know) planning where they're going to go to school etc. Also I want to see the character of the neighborhood's architecture protected. As far as segregation - it's very Dominican and has probably gotten more so since I've been here. To me this isn't a bad thing though.

[BxGyrl]

Originally Posted by Foamposite

Aren't Davidson and Grand University Heights?

He says Fordham and Grand Concourse. University Heights technically starts on Jerome Ave., which is just a few blocks to the west. Most people around here don’t really make that distinction and pretty much refer to anything from Southern Blvd. to the Harlem River as “Fordham.” There’s not much of a demographic or socioeconomic difference between Fordham and University Heights.

[Foamposite]

Originally Posted by BxGyrl

He says Fordham and Grand Concourse. University Heights technically starts on Jerome Ave., which is just a few blocks to the west. Most people around here don’t really make that distinction and pretty much refer to anything from Southern Blvd. to the Harlem River as “Fordham.” There’s not much of a demographic or socioeconomic difference between Fordham and University Heights.

I thought Grand and Davidson were West of Jerome.

I agree that there's not much difference between the neighborhoods, though.

[BxGyrl]

Originally Posted by Foamposite

I thought Grand and Davidson were West of Jerome.

I agree that there's not much difference between the neighborhoods, though.

They are. That’s what I’m saying. There’s no real difference between Davidson Ave. and Grand Ave. and, say, Marion or Bainbridge or Walton.