Is NYC losing its soul? (New York, Inwood: middle-class, apartment, rent)

[Castro Viejo]

Manhattan has always been a facade of New York for Hollywood, the media, etc. The real New York and real New Yorkers have almost always lived in the outer boroughs. It's just a fact of life in the Big Apple.

Manhattan is a big draw for people of all walks of life on every rung of the socioeconomic ladder. So this culture is constantly in a state of flux. Except for some areas that will probably be extremely resistant to full on gentrification such as the LES, Chinatown, Spanish Harlem, and I guess Washington Heights the rest of the island will always change with the new arrivals who often come in droves. Money wins in Manhattan all the time and the real estate boom certainly fueled that, so you may seem some of the elements of Manhattan that you were fond of disappear in the name of gentrification and sanitation of New York City.

But in the outer boroughs, other than some key gentrified areas like Northern Brooklyn (Park Slope, Fort Greene, some areas of Bedford-Stuyvesant even!), Central Queens (Forest Hills, Kew Gardens), Staten Island (St. George), and whichever part of the Bronx that happens to be gentrifying at the moment, you'll still find the old New York you knew with all the grit and grime you want. To me that's where the real New York lives, outside of Manhattan riding the subway to get into work, and not trying to live life the way the television version of New York seems to teach the rest of America.

I grew up in Bay Ridge, Brooklyn and moved to the city for work eventually and have lived in Manhattan for quite some time in TriBeCa, the Upper East Side, and now Greenwich Village. In the twenty years that I've been in the city, what has changed most is the people. Their attitudes are different. I think you hit it on the head when you wrote of their wandering attitudes of entitlement as they strolled the streets of the Big City. I don't like it. You just know that these are the transplants who just several years ago sat in their living rooms in Casper, WY, watching Sex in the City and deciding to move to Manhattan so they can live lives such as the ones they see on television.

It's sad that this is what Manhattan has become, but it's just another interesting facet of Manhattan's evolution.

That's why I'm moving, to be honest. I don't want to deal with the transplants of this town anymore and I'm going to head to Chicago (really, I'm going because my work calls me to the Windy City) and see what it's like out there. Perhaps in 10 years I'll see what's doing in New York and maybe I'll come back. Or maybe I'll move back to my other love (California).

[Elvira Black]

Thanks DAS...the reason I stress the LES/downtown area is because I lived through the transition, which took many years. I saw firsthand how it started (just a bit at first, then more, and finally the "tipping point"), so that's why when people are cynical of my claims about how an area can do a complete 180, I know it's true. Just like few successful people/celebs are "overnight sensations" (it usually takes years of grueling work to get "discovered" if you ever do), so too the changes to Manhattan could be imperceptible for a long time, even to lifelong residents. I lived in Manhattan during the "bad old days" too, so I know how dangerous it was but also know how interesting it could be--and how dramatically it has changed.

The Bronx was no surprise to me--I liked it the first time I visited my b/f 9 years ago--maybe because it resembled the LES to me. I wasn't phobic about diversity since I'd lived on the LEs for many many years.

The thing is that now gentrification doesn't take decades or even many years anymore. It can happen with dizzying speed now. And Manhattan is changing so quickly now that if I'm not there for awhile and I go back, the new changes hit me even harder than they used to. Whole blocks can be razed and new high rises built in the blink of an eye. Old stores are gone, replaced with chain stores or shops that cater only to the wealthy.

My b/f had it a lot rougher than me. Just for example, he used to live in a SRO on 99th and Broadway. Very cheap living indeed, and for the record he was not the only white person there--a bunch of his friends lived there too. One woman told him that way back all the residents were artists, but that was already a thing of the past.

About a month ago I looked up the address, and it had just been turned into superluxe condos, complete with amenities such as pet salons, swimming pool, and other perks which only those who can afford a million and up can pay.

I didn't need the book to tell me these things, but the essay I read was incredibly well written and described the East Village/LEs area to a "t." She named all the old haunts there and in most other areas of Manhattan as they were at the time. It just reinforced what I saw and felt myself.

The Harlem incident you mentioned was even worse than I thought. This is the kind of thing that makes me furious. But bad karma can hit you right in the ***, so if those newcomers fled right back out, good riddance to them.

[Elvira Black]

Great points, Castro. The only thing I would add is that really old time outer borough NY'ers can also be almost violently opposed to change. Many of them are white, working to middle class people who can't understand what happened to "their" city.

Hope you enjoy Chicago, though! Good luck!

[irvm]

Originally Posted by Elvira Black

...
But if you move to someone else's home, and start to try to squeeze all the culture and history out of it so it can be nice and sanitized for your protection, is it really NYC anymore, or just some transplanted suburb?...

What a great post, Elvira.
Trouble is, the same thing is happening everywhere, not just NY, but in every city, and in the countryside as well.
Maybe it's because the population is growing older and grouchier.
Or perhaps it's because people (everywhere) are so self-centered that they think they have some god-given right to be 'comfortable' all the time. The most 'excitement' they want in their life is to see plastic alligators swimming in a fake swamp at Disneyland.

[DAS]

Manhattan has always been a facade of New York for Hollywood, the media, etc. The real New York and real New Yorkers have almost always lived in the outer boroughs. It's just a fact of life in the Big Apple.

There is more to Manhattan than the midtown tourist sections. The other areas that have been pointed out LES, upper east and west sides, (there are regular Nyers in the upper east and west side that don't make a lot of money and are long time residents in regular tenement buildings, Mitchell Lama's, PJ's ect ), East Harlem, Harlem, Morningside, Washington Heights, and Inwood. These are not the fast paced, bright lights and B****** areas. These are the areas where families live. Where people have been for generations since the 1920's and after. Where there are people that don't care about how much they can sell their space for in 2 years, or the price per square foot. Btw there are still SRo's on the upper west side. They are just a little less noticable than they were back then. They have been rehabbed somewhat to blend in with the new luxury housing.

Great points, Castro. The only thing I would add is that really old time outer borough NY'ers can also be almost violently opposed to change. Many of them are white, working to middle class people who can't understand what happened to "their" city.

IMO part of the reason they are opposed to some of the changes besides all the old reasons, is that they see what can happen to an area. They want their children to be able to afford a nice home, condo or coop in their area and not be forced to take the chance that some area will be up and coming. Also some of these up and coming areas may be more expensive now.

[DAS]

Or perhaps it's because people (everywhere) are so self-centered that they think they have some god-given right to be 'comfortable' all the time. The most 'excitement' they want in their life is to see plastic alligators swimming in a fake swamp at Disneyland.

Only the elitist that are working people around the globe for wages that are way below poverty, at what is called misery level would feel this way.

[BXGEAR]

Originally Posted by Castro Viejo

Manhattan has always been a facade of New York for Hollywood, the media, etc. The real New York and real New Yorkers have almost always lived in the outer boroughs. It's just a fact of life in the Big Apple.

Your post is hypocritical.
You stated there is a constant flux in Manhattan's population. It has been that way for generations. But you hate on the changing faces. You believe the outer borough New Yorkers are the real New Yorkers. I'm an outer borough NYer but I prefer to live in Manhattan. I think you are trying to justify your move out of state by hating on what NYC has become. NYC has always been changing, get used to it or move. Not everyone can handle the city

[Hustla718]

NYC is loosing it's soul but it has nothing to do with roughness becuase plenty of areas are still rough.

The biggest changes are:

-Mom and pop business squashed by corportations. Applebees, Starbucks, ect.

-Displaced populations in the city.

-Loosing middle income working enclaves.

-Commercialization of certain areas, look at Times Square. It's basically a showoff for the city. Lights, noise, ect. The city also wants to change the Coney Island boardwalk. The grittyness is what gave Coney Island it's appeal to many. It is just different and an interesting place.

Originally Posted by Elvira Black

The thing is that now gentrification doesn't take decades or even many years anymore. It can happen with dizzying speed now. And Manhattan is changing so quickly now that if I'm not there for awhile and I go back, the new changes hit me even harder than they used to. Whole blocks can be razed and new high rises built in the blink of an eye. Old stores are gone, replaced with chain stores or shops that cater only to the wealthy.

I disagree with this statement.

Name neighborhoods in NYC that have been gentrified.

-The Lower East Side has not been completely gentrified and more likely then not will not see any more extreme changes. It is in a later stage of gentrification but what you see is what you get, the low income public housing projects along the waterfront will guerentee that neighborhood will always be sketchy.

-Harlem is not gentrified, it's still in the very early stages. West Harlem is farther along then Central and East but still at a very early stage.

-Bed-stuy, not gentrified. Still at a very, very early stage.

-Fort Greene, similar situation to the LES. Later stages of gentrification but still very shady neighborhood. Still a significant population of low income people living within it's boundaries. The low income public housing complexes.

Although the NY Times would love people to think NYC neighborhoods quickly flip, they don't.

[Elvira Black]

Hustla, I agree with most of your post. However, if I have to list all the Manhattan and Brooklyn neighborhoods that have gentrified, then you don't know Manhattan like I do. Perhaps because you never lived there. In fact, you said most people from your area didn't have the money to hang in Manhattan.

If you really want the long list of gentrified hoods--some as recent as, like, "yesterday," I'll go down the list for you.

And it matters not a whit if you think they're a rip off. They are not, for those who can afford them. Not all can, but some still try. Like, how much is a Van Gogh worth? Zero (in his lifetime) or countless millions? If you think these people are all being ripped off, think again. They can buy and sell it later for a significant profit. But first you've got to have the scratch.

More people of all ethnicities have prospered than many years ago, at a faster rate. If you had a home here in Brooklyn back in the day, if you worked hard, saved, and sold it at the height of the market you could fund your kid's college education at a top school.

That's how the rich get richer. Hard work up front, savvy about what they have later.

[BXGEAR]

Originally Posted by Hustla718

-Mom and pop business squashed by corportations. Applebees, Starbucks, ect.

-Displaced populations in the city.

-Loosing middle income working enclaves.

-Commercialization of certain areas, look at Times Square. It's basically a showoff for the city. Lights, noise, ect. The city also wants to change the Coney Island boardwalk. The grittyness is what gave Coney Island it's appeal to many. It is just different and an interesting place.

Instead of leaving New York for the yuppies to keep, why don't you stay and fight for what you want? If you want mom and pop stores; set up business districts and support it. If you want the middle class to come back; use incentives. Whether it be quality of life, safety, economic improvement, historic preservation, upgrade mass transit, fixing infrastructure, developing housing, whatever it is; stay and make it happen. Don't give up and run away to North Dakota using the excuse that yuppies were making you sick. NYC changes. But, residents keep it real. Those people who fight for their community and serve to make it better are the absolute realest NYers.