Just how "affordable" are the "nicer" areas of NYC? (Pelham: low income, appointed)

[Elvira Black]

Hustla and others insist that there are reasonable apts still to be find in "better" areas of the Bronx, Brooklyn, and Queens.

I just did a quick search on the NY Daily News online, looking for some of the areas Hustla mentioned. In some cases, I couldn't find them. For some, (Throggs Neck) there were only a few.

For anyone who has gone apt searching in this city, it goes without saying that ads don't tell the whole story. You might get a one bed that is 300 square feet, or maybe even less. It might be an hour or plus commute. It may look a lot less desirable than it seems in an ad, and the neighborhood may be "sketchy" if it's cheaper.
Then, if you're looking for the rarer deals, many others are looking too, and it can be a losing battle trying to get any deals that are out there. It can be done, I guess, but it was tough many years ago, and it's probably even tougher today.

Here's some examples; as I say, I didn't find all the areas Hustla mentioned, and I didn't want to use the NY Times as an example for fear I would be called "elitist" (lol). This is a sampling from the NY Daily News online for one beds in Queens, Brooklyn, and the Bronx--some of the nicer areas. I'd love to know if the native Bronxites who post here would be able to afford these "good deals." All are one bedrooms unless otherwise noted.

QUEENS:
Long Island Cty (STUDIO) 2150

Astoria 1600

Jackson Heights 1375

Briarwood 1050 (not bad, but how far out is it? And I think it's the only listing I saw).

Corona 1395

Forest Hills 1675

BRONX


Riverdale: one beds ranging from 1075, 1100, 1325, 2000. I agreed with Hustla that Riverdale and Norwood (esp. Norwood/Woodlawn) can be pretty good deals, but there's a caveat attached:

Most of the one beds in Riverdale will likely be smaller than similar one beds elsewhere. So one apt is not identical to another. You get less for your money even in the more affordable areas as a general rule. And there are more and less desirable areas, even in riverdale. The fancier areas will cost you a lot more.

Throggs Neck:
Saw one bed for 1100, and 2 bed waterfront view 2000. Sounds great, but the listings are rare--I think that was it. And the commute?

BROOKLYN;
I'm not familiar with all the areas, so I chose the ones I knew that were good ones.

Carroll Gardens: 1525
Brooklyn Heights: 2850, 3000, 4200

Park Slope: 1500, 2200

Williamsburg: 3850

Brooklyn Heights (no surprise here): 2850, 3000, 4200

In the Bronx, No listings for Morris Park, Country Club, Pelham Bay that I saw. Only Morris Heights. Some of these areas have a low vacancy rate, and I believe some areas you can only get in if you know someone (literally--you have to have several references)

As a general rule, you probably get more bang for your buck if you rent 2 beds or more. I think this applies to Riverdale for sure.

I peruse the classifieds regularly, and I've done extgensive apt hunting in the city in the past, and when your budget is "x" but all the places you like are either grabbed up immediately, cost "x plus" over your budget, are in still-dangerous areas, involve very long commutes, or are tiny closets, the hunt is much more rough--esp if you have little time to get a place coming from out of town.

I agree there may be some comparative deals to be found, but as I say, you often have a significant trade off involved. If it's a great deal, no time to think twice--grab it up if it isn't gone by the time you call (another scam is for brokers to list a great deal just to get you in the door, only to tell you well, that one's gone, but I've got another great one for xxx more...")

Look for yourself, Hustla et al. The grass is always greener....

[scatman]

The 1BR in Park Slope at 1500 would be considered a steal in that nabe. However, having lived in that nabe for 15 years, it is most likely;

1) Either the South (south of 9th Street) or west (west of 4th Avenue).

2) no more than 550 sq. foot!

3) may be a studio, as opposed to a 1BR (shoot, it may even be the studio I lived in--I payed $750)

Elvira, if you have the square footage to those listings, can you post it? And can you post the link to the Slope listing. I can tell you what part of the Slope it's at! Thanks!

[scatman]

Elvira, I found the Slope listing. Just as I thought, South Slope. Prospect Avenue is right at the Prospect Expwy. That's away from most of the "trendy action", but that's still a good deal in a good nabe.

Now, the questions become 1) is it rent stabilized? (Probably not!) and 2) What's the condition and square footage?

[Elvira Black]

Scatman:

I did a very quick search, and I don't think the Daily News listings generally list square feet. More details are more typical in the NY Times listings, which also may include multiple photos, or even virtual tours.

But I don't look at the rentals often--usually take a look at Coops just to see if my new investment is paying off (lol).

So this is just a very small sampling--thing is, in my time there was no internet, so you literally had to "pound the pavement" and "do your footwork," only to often find a line down the block for a "steal." the usual tiny dumps advertised as "huge" and "charming," and all that jazz.

If you're really curious about what's going for what, check out the NY Times online classified. Again, I'm assuming that at least sometimes they'll list the square footage, and have more photos, but again, not sure if this is as ubiquitious in the rentals vs. the sales listings.

Another thing I feel I must stress--the real estate catchphrase "cheaper than rent!" for coops can, literally be true--and often significantly.

If you do a mortgage computation and add to the maintenace, you may get not only more bang for your buck, but possibly cheaper, buildiup of equity, tax deductions, amenities and maintenance, and sometimes including gas and electric. And the sizes can be bigger than an apt too.

Do the math--if you can beg, borrow or "steal" the down payment, and afford the mortgage plus mainteannce, it's a win win situation--unless the market truly tanks. But if you're gonna live there and not flip, you can ride out the rough times--just like the stock market esp if you own blue chip stocks.

So do an advanced search in the NY Times, plug in your criteria, (neighborhood, max price, elevator bldg, etc etc) and look at the pix and square footage.

It can be astonishing deal, and I'm sure you already well know, scatman!

PS--this is how the rich get richer, or even the poor and middle class.

[Elvira Black]

PS:

Generally, anything over two grand a month will off be rent stabilization, so it's market rate esp. if demand is high.

[Elvira Black]

Sorry for all the syntax/spelling errors--I'm just enjoying my Saturday night attitude adjustment.

[Elvira Black]

You know what? We could really help each other out on this site even more. If you see a listing and want the real deal, just ask a local here (like Scat et al) for the scoop on it, so you won't waste your time and be bitterly disappointed.

Or, alternately, we could all just leave NYC like Hustla's gonna do.

PS--Hustla, once again, could you afford these rents or not?

[Hustla718]

YOU DO NOT HAVE TO LIVE IN A BAD NEIGHBORHOOD TO LIVE IN NYC.

Enough of this already. People don't just look to the Times or even Craigslist to find apartments. People find apartments through other people.

If you can't afford housing in at least a decent neighborhood then maybe it's time you reconsider moving to NYC.

The people in the low income sections of NYC are not paying $1200 on rent, the rates they are charging now for nicer buildings in those neighborhoods. If they are you can guarentee it's 2 or 3 doubling/tripling up. The low income in those areas are paying like $150-600 a month. If they leave, they will be stuck in the same mess somewhere else. Crap jobs, dead end jobs, it will be the same. They have no options.

Young proffesionals, YOU ARE NOT POOR. Your at a temporary disadvantage due to high housing cost in NYC. If you can't afford to live decent, WHY MUST YOU LIVE IN NYC?

As for the prices you posted. I just took a look at craigslist.

The average one bedroom in a decent lower middle class working city neighborhood (Morris Park for example) looks to be around $900-1200. Pricey but not extreme and young proffesionals can afford that. Some go for about $100 less.

3 bedroom. $1385..

new york craigslist > all apartments: search for "morris park"

Now lets go to a crap area like Mott Haven...

Average market rate studio on craigslist is $1,100!!!!! A studio!

3 bedroom, $1900!!! WHO THE HELL IS GOING TO PAY THAT IN THAT NEIGHBORHOOD? RIGHT OUTSIDE THE PJS!!!!

new york craigslist > all apartments: search for "mott haven"

The damn hood is MORE EXPENSIVE.

[scatman]

Originally Posted by Elvira Black

Scatman:

I did a very quick search, and I don't think the Daily News listings generally list square feet. More details are more typical in the NY Times listings, which also may include multiple photos, or even virtual tours.

But I don't look at the rentals often--usually take a look at Coops just to see if my new investment is paying off (lol).

So this is just a very small sampling--thing is, in my time there was no internet, so you literally had to "pound the pavement" and "do your footwork," only to often find a line down the block for a "steal." the usual tiny dumps advertised as "huge" and "charming," and all that jazz.

If you're really curious about what's going for what, check out the NY Times online classified. Again, I'm assuming that at least sometimes they'll list the square footage, and have more photos, but again, not sure if this is as ubiquitious in the rentals vs. the sales listings.

Another thing I feel I must stress--the real estate catchphrase "cheaper than rent!" for coops can, literally be true--and often significantly.

If you do a mortgage computation and add to the maintenace, you may get not only more bang for your buck, but possibly cheaper, buildiup of equity, tax deductions, amenities and maintenance, and sometimes including gas and electric. And the sizes can be bigger than an apt too.

Do the math--if you can beg, borrow or "steal" the down payment, and afford the mortgage plus mainteannce, it's a win win situation--unless the market truly tanks. But if you're gonna live there and not flip, you can ride out the rough times--just like the stock market esp if you own blue chip stocks.

So do an advanced search in the NY Times, plug in your criteria, (neighborhood, max price, elevator bldg, etc etc) and look at the pix and square footage.

It can be astonishing deal, and I'm sure you already well know, scatman!

PS--this is how the rich get richer, or even the poor and middle class.

Elvira,

I am, thankfully, reaping the benefits of homeownership. And I regret not one iota of it! While looking, I did the whole real estate section circuit. The apartment I found was done through foxtons. Try that site. It's very good!

I look at listings in my nabe, too, to see about the appreciation. I have private mortgage insurance, due to me putting zero down. Thinking that it would take 2 years to get 20% appreciation (that's when the PMI can be taken off!), it may actually take 6 months! We shall see!

[Elvira Black]

Yep, Scat, I got an excellent Bronx deal too. My ex-boyfriend used Foxtons, and though their listings are great, they are not too professional as a rule (I heard they just closed their Us market--or at least the mortgage part.

Hustla, what kinda rube would trust Craigslist?

You just don't get that people WANT to live here and will do almost anything to do so. That's part of the NYC/American dream, the promise of America--that no matter how inhuman your initial conditions, you or at least your children can climb out of the ghetto (of whatever ethnicity) and go on to be solid and successful people--college grads, professionals, making great money.

You know what money means, Hustla? Not heaven on earth. It just means you have options in life--a lot more options, a lot more choices.

If you have enough money, you can afford 5 grand a month to live in Chelsea. But you don't get there overnight unless your parents are rich--and how did they get that way, do you suppose?

You go to college, work hard, get internships in your field. Do well in high school and college. Go out there, maybe start at a modest salary, move up the ladder, etc.

These people don't want to live in the burbs OR the ghetto. They want to have it all--the real deal, the real Manhattan dream. And some of them get it. A LOT of them get it. But it ain't cheap.

You seem to lack any imagination or empathy for others, Hustla. Not everyone is you. We are not clones of each other. Not everyone is your age, your profession, your experiences, your personal pref's.

You've lived here all your life, no? You think the suburbs are heaven on earth, or another city at any rate, right? Why is it so hard to see that those from the burbs would be sick and tired of it and want to move to the big city and live the big life? Those who don't make it either move or settle for less or live a bitter life. Some move when they have kids. But most young people are not ready for that kind of life, at least not quite yet.

Everything costs---you get what you pay for.

I don't even think you bothered to read my post before responding--esp the part about coops and home ownership.