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Not surprising as the NY metro area is one of the most residentially segregated areas in the NYC, despite its liberal reputation. So where is all of this mixing going on that people here pretend that exists. Those who actually move freely between all the different worlds in NYC are a distinct minority.
Which is why i find all of this "we are the world conversation to be laughable". Most people here mix within their socio economic brackets WITHIN their ethnoracial groupings. Yes they will have some friends from outside of their particular group. Most likely from work where they meet on neutral ground.
But rarely will they enter the social worlds of their diverse friends, except maybe at a special event like a wedding, and then most likely leave as soon as they can w/o causing offense...because even if they can fit in, knowing a few people there, who ever they bring doesnt feel able to.
People move in worlds where they are the majority and where the "other" has to adjust to fit in. So why the animous at this poor misguided fellow I dont know. He is honest about his insecurities. Many of you are little different.
Best reply yet. People will put up with the other races and cultures but rarely mix. Here in Queens by neighborhood is 100 races and people rarely cross the line and talk to each other. In Erie I was friendly with all my neighbors and friends with many of them. We all came from a common background and all spoke English.
Quote:
Originally Posted by caribny
Not surprising as the NY metro area is one of the most residentially segregated areas in the NYC, despite its liberal reputation. So where is all of this mixing going on that people here pretend that exists. Those who actually move freely between all the different worlds in NYC are a distinct minority.
Which is why i find all of this "we are the world conversation to be laughable". Most people here mix within their socio economic brackets WITHIN their ethnoracial groupings. Yes they will have some friends from outside of their particular group. Most likely from work where they meet on neutral ground.
But rarely will they enter the social worlds of their diverse friends, except maybe at a special event like a wedding, and then most likely leave as soon as they can w/o causing offense...because even if they can fit in, knowing a few people there, who ever they bring doesnt feel able to.
People move in worlds where they are the majority and where the "other" has to adjust to fit in. So why the animous at this poor misguided fellow I dont know. He is honest about his insecurities. Many of you are little different.
That article was about LI though which is way more segregated. NYC even if the neighborhoods are somewhat segregated still "forces" you to interact with other people from other cultures and ethnicities. Even if you don't want to at some point you will have to...
As for the OP's question I've never put much thought into it. But I don't imagine most white people think about it alot even when they come from places that are overwhelmingly white. A big chunk of the so called pioneers that enter mostly non-white neighborhoods are from places that are overwhelmingly white. A lot of people that move here are open minded and surprisingly post-racial...
The development of LI took off as whites fled from the "evil" people of color in NYC in the 50s and 60s. Do you really think LI would end up being integrated in any way? It was developed exclusively for whites, and with the exception of a few neighborhoods where people of color were steered to live (allowed to live), people of color were not welcome. You should recall the first major planned development in LI, I think called Levittown, expressly forbade blacks and incorporated it into the deeds as a restriction...and it wasn't the only community to do that.
My aunt and her family (all from Mott Haven) moved to Hempstead, LI (surprise!) in the early 80s..it was amazing to go out into the suburbs and see the exact same people you just left in the Bronx! It was the only place the realtors would show them, so they bought. What's funny (or maybe not so much), is that my aun't parents (my grandparents) bought their building in Mott Haven in the 50s from Jews leaving the neighborhood as the colored folks moved in. Fast forward to the early 80s, my aunt bought the house in Hempstead from Jews leaving the neighborhoods as the colored folks moved in. Funny how that works huh? The only time I have experienced any sort of real integration is when my parents moved to Florida and purchased in a new development...all different color people, from all over the place (Midwest, Northeast, other areas of the South, etc)..because the developer only cared about who could afford to buy..green was the only color the developer cared about. It is a true mixed community of middle class residents.
The LI segregation should be no surprise to anyone. As for NYC there is no doubt it is balkanized and has been for 100+ years starting with isolation of the Irish, and every subsequent non-white immigrant thereafter: Italians, Jews, PRs, Blacks, Asians, etc. That being said, it has become decidedly less segregated, and communities are becoming more diverse.
The segregation in NYC is real, but neighborhoods are far more fluid than people believe.
Best reply yet. People will put up with the other races and cultures but rarely mix. Here in Queens by neighborhood is 100 races and people rarely cross the line and talk to each other. In Erie I was friendly with all my neighbors and friends with many of them. We all came from a common background and all spoke English.
People are tribal by nature. They assert themselves with people who are like them and are skeptical of large groups of outsiders. Unfortunately, I don't think many people really care about that and equate multiculturalism to being able to buy Thai food whenever you want. I hear that a lot about where I'm from. "It's so diverse, there's 140 languages spoken here, yadda yadda yadda". Yeah, but you still don't see Chinese dudes hanging out with Arabs or white guys speaking Spanish. I think pushing a multiculturalism and integration agenda actually encourages racism... I'm starting to see this here.
IllCosby..but you do see white guys speaking spanish, and you do see the chinese guys with the Arabs. Maybe you don't see it all the time everywhere you go, but you are more likely to see it here than anywhere else in the country, and we can all agree to that.
And I want to add that even "white" areas are far more diverse today. They can include Jews, Italians, Irish, Eastern Europeans, Russians, Greeks, Lebanese, "White" Hispanics, etc. The blanket "white" really does a disservice to how diverse the "white" population is today...almost anyone falls into the category these days. There are really just a handful of populations which are not white: Blacks, Asians, Hispanics which LOOK stereotypically Hispanic (whether that be indigenous like Mexicans, or heavily black like Dominicans/Panamanians), or Arabs which look stereotypically arabic....everyone else though is now "white."
I have family (my own and family-in-law) who are PR and consider themselves white....and they are accepted as such..that's just how it is now.
No, this is not a racist troll post complaining about dark skinned people. Instead, I am curious what other people who are white and came from communities whose population is mostly white and fifth generation American, feel living in New York City where they are the minority. How does it make you feel?
what if you a Native NYer, are white, and had parents or grandparents who were immigrants like so many native NYers have?
My neighborhood in NYC growing up must have been around 90% "white" but was probably less than 2% fifth generation American.
some people don't have hang-ups on race.
some do. i have met a lot of people from
different races and nationalities in my lifetime,
and i don't prejudge them. there are cool
people to talk to from all backgrounds.
there are just not a lot of hillbillies and
rednecks in nyc; not to be derogatory
at all; just telling it like it is, because
some whites are proud of being that.
That article was about LI though which is way more segregated. NYC even if the neighborhoods are somewhat segregated still "forces" you to interact with other people from other cultures and ethnicities. Even if you don't want to at some point you will have to...
A lot of people that move here are open minded and surprisingly post-racial...
In gentrified neighborhoods people live in very different worlds. They may know each other, and say hello, but they keep their distance. Not that different from the more diverse suburbs. I have seen the very stiff encounters defined by the PC need to quickly acknowledge, politely chat and then move on.
Go to Fort Greene, look at the bars and restaurants and note that most groups are very monoracial even if the overall clientele is mixed. Yes one might find a group of 5 whites and ONE black. More rarely 5 blacks and ONE white. But a group with 50:50 where no one has to give "cultural" ground. Not usual. It is indeed a fact that most black professionals are more comfortable crossing boundaries because they must in their day to day careers, starting from school. Outside of entertainment whites have less experience with this.
Indeed while we speak Madison Ave is under govt inquiry to determine why the lack of diversity given the available pool of suitable candidates. This is a very liberal industry I am sure.
NYC is not post racial and people really need to stop with that talk. Yes we no longer freak out when we run into each other as we did 20 years ago, and most embrace the language of diveristy in an intellectual sense, even though they have yet to embrace it in terms of being willing to enter the worlds of others. When we encounter each other its a careful dance most of the time.........each careful not to cause offense.
Most people still populate worlds dominated by their "own kind", and where others arrive as "tourists", and so must fit into the norms of the group. Note that I am talking about people who are within similar educational, occupational, and maybe income brackets. So please none of this nonsensical comparison of yuppies and gang bangers.
Go check out the offices of most SMALL professional service firms where hiring decisions usually occur within the social networks of the owners or senior employees.
The OP is not very different from most. He is just not PC enough to realize that he must hide his views. I assume the longer he stays in NYC the more he will understand that he should so that we can all maintain the pretense of post-racialism.
IllCosby..but you do see white guys speaking spanish, and you do see the chinese guys with the Arabs. Maybe you don't see it all the time everywhere you go, but you are more likely to see it here than anywhere else in the country, and we can all agree to that.
And I want to add that even "white" areas are far more diverse today. They can include Jews, Italians, Irish, Eastern Europeans, Russians, Greeks, Lebanese, "White" Hispanics, etc. The blanket "white" really does a disservice to how diverse the "white" population is today...almost anyone falls into the category these days. There are really just a handful of populations which are not white: Blacks, Asians, Hispanics which LOOK stereotypically Hispanic (whether that be indigenous like Mexicans, or heavily black like Dominicans/Panamanians), or Arabs which look stereotypically arabic....everyone else though is now "white."
I have family (my own and family-in-law) who are PR and consider themselves white....and they are accepted as such..that's just how it is now.
What this says is that ethnicity is playing a declining role for people who share a common "racial" category. This is true.
Is it as true BETWEEN these racial groups? I see Asian Americans fully integrating with whites...Less of that between other groups.
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