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Statements like this serve only to quickly ruin otherwise interesting conversations.
Very true....but I see the point he is trying to make at the same time. Unfortunately blacks and spanish get blamed, almost like they created the welfare system. But people tend not to think on a national scale and realize on a national average there are more poor whites than black and hispanic. It doesnt even matter anyway what race is on welfare. The point is PEOPLE abuse it and the GOVERNMENT is not doing anything to stop the abuse. which leads me to believe that the GOVERNMENT doesn't give 2 s**** if they abuse it or not. Don't pay your taxes and see how quickly they come after you. But they don't come quick enough for these leeches.
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"The man who sleeps on the floor, can never fall out of bed." -Martin Lawrence
True to some extent, but Sobro basically said that no matter what is being discussed, 'blacks and browns' always get the blame. So we can no longer discuss the lack of pothole maintenance in NYC, because obviously of course, we're actually trying to blame the 'blacks and browns'.
True to some extent, but Sobro basically said that no matter what is being discussed, 'blacks and browns' always get the blame. So we can no longer discuss the lack of pothole maintenance in NYC, because obviously of course, we're actually trying to blame the 'blacks and browns'.
Lol. Trust me I'm on ur side with this one. The discussion does not need race as a supplement.
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"The man who sleeps on the floor, can never fall out of bed." -Martin Lawrence
All blame in this country leads back to the same thing: The blacks and browns. If you take a moment and actually listen, you will see all roads lead back to the same thing no matter what is being addressed. It's so very sad.
Let's see if we can name a problem in this country that isn't (supposedly) blacks/browns fault?
Perhaps, but consider the following. The only chance anyone has of getting anywhere, and then of creating change, is an education - the highest to which they are personally suited. Not everyone needs to be a Rhodes scholar. Indeed, not everyone IS one and there is nothing wrong with that. People make different contributions. I truly believe this and these powerful contributions can happens in a number of areas - in communities, in families, many places. What would really matter if the world were to be destroyed through plague ? What would matter to me would be my neighbor and friend, a plumber and very good handyman, fundamentally honest and a really decent person. I would definitely want him around, come what may. He could fix things, if nothing else.
It is very important to exercise caution around young people when discussing these things in very negative terms. I admit it is hard to figure out how to do it. But I observe every day the kind of despair and alienation of young "black and brown" people from those greater goals, very often educational ones, that they need very much even as their alienation from them grows.
Briefly stated, you do not want to create something like, "What's the point ?" We should encourage young people to gain educations, and they will then, eventually, occupy positions where they might change things. I am aware that there will now be a roar of commentary that whomever will not allow this to happen - I disagree. If people work hard and keep their mouths shut when they need to, they can move into all sorts of positions, at this point in time in particular. Token people will be granted positions, even if just for the reason that the people in charge are not smart enough, or are too arrogant, to realize the challenges people can pose in the end. I am seeing this in small ways already, people moving into positions of power - quietly.
But people tend not to think on a national scale and realize on a national average there are more poor whites than black and hispanic.
Is that statistic true ? I thought that adjusted for relative percentages of the population, there were more blacks than whites on welfare. I am far from an expert on these statistics, however.
I do know many social worker types, who would view such things as an indication of a problem, why should there be such high percentage of one race on welfare and so on.
It certainly is the case that, were you to travel in America, you would observe that the white trash abounds - everywhere but here.
In an earlier thread I started, What If We Demolished all the Projects?, the argument seemed to shift to a discussion about what those who live in low-income housing projects were "owed", if anything.
I believe that when welfare was first started it was envisioned as a temporary help to get people past hard times and back on their feet.
Today many allege that part of the failure of liberalism was the assumption that people would gratefully accept assistance and quickly move to improve themselves.
Certainly some poor people strive to better themselves and get out of public housing; but others just accept the lousy conditions and pass this passive acceptance on to their kids, as if being on the public dole was a right.
Is it a right, or a privilege?
M SobroGuy asserted that in NYC, once you qualify for public housing, the city owes it to you for life. Incredible!
On the other hand, Kefir King says that those who live in the projects are "demeaned" and therefor are owed still more from the taxpayers, to make their lives less stressful.
Opinions?
I wish I can agree with you !!! But if you never been trough this process you cant talk about it!! It's hard to accept that this country is for everyone to live. You are one of the bless ones that has it all or maybe a Little bit
In a couple of years more they will be more!!
I understand how people abuse of the system often and how everyone reacts about it. But look at the real responsibles that has this people like this . Everyone thinks that welfare gives everything to us, and that we don't have to work for it. How about making all jobs pay one global wage!!! All those people earning $50,$80 and $ 100 dollars am hour drop them down to 7.25 for five years !!! Make them live what we are living !!! The biggest issue in this country is money . For those that think that people that are in welfare doesn't have to pay taxes !! We pay with sacrifice working for you!!!!
The irony is the stereotype of the American welfare case is actually Reba-Lynn Smith, not Latoya. But nothing is ever bad or a problem, until the blacks and browns are involved. Low-income neighborhoods like Hells Kitchen (please ignore the name), LES, Southern Bronx, etc were all wonderful places of hardworking, god fearing, caring people, until those brown's and blacks showed up and "ruined it". Welfare is horrible, not because the bulk of recipients are white and outside of NYC, but because of the image perpetuated of "Latoya and her 5 kids." Crime is a new phenomenon which hit NYC around 1960s apparently, when the blacks and browns showed up and "ruined the city." Before that it was "a wonderful place to raise a family." Everyone "earned" their way to every job they ever had, and we lived in a perfect meritocracy, that is until the 60s when 'we were forced to hire blacks and browns.' They ruined it and dumbed down everything, so now the imagined meritocracy has disappeared.
See a trend here? It is suprising that people don't see the totality of this blame game, and the sheer suspension of reality, logic, reason, and history to actually believe this garbage. And yet, in 2012, it's just the same old story. At the end of the day, every problem in NYC and the country comes down to the same thing: those browns and blacks. Problem with crime? It's the blacks/browns. Education? They let in the blacks and browns. Bad neighborhoods? Blacks and browns. Can't get a job? It's cuz they are forced to hire blacks and browns. Bad economy? It's Latoya and her 5 kids sucking us dry. Litter on the streets? Those blacks and browns. Kids hanging out and being hooligans...I mean "hoodlums"? Those black and brown kids are the problem. And on and on..it's truly amazing.
Meanwhile, the banks and those in power have just stripped the equity from your home, devalued your retirement accounts, sunk the economy causing your company to close and now you have no job, cut social services which you actually need now, while they are living it up in one of their many homes across the globe. But yeah...keep your eye on that black and brown guy..they are the real problem here.
My comment was not to simply inject race, it was just to open people's eyes a bit, maybe it worked, maybe not. Everyone is abusing the system, but the Latoya example is the only one brought up..strange huh? Maybe because we live in NYC and Latoya is the face of welfare (and Maria), but the same image of Latoya resonates across the country and fires up people, in a way that Reba-Lynn from West Virginia (which is the face of welfare across the rest of the country) does not. Why is that?
I am all for cleaning up abuse in every segment of society, but using the image of blacks and browns exclusively abusing the system to get people angry is what bothers me. Airborne, we can continue the discussion however you like...so please continue.
In an earlier thread I started, What If We Demolished all the Projects?, the argument seemed to shift to a discussion about what those who live in low-income housing projects were "owed", if anything.
I believe that when welfare was first started it was envisioned as a temporary help to get people past hard times and back on their feet.
Today many allege that part of the failure of liberalism was the assumption that people would gratefully accept assistance and quickly move to improve themselves.
Certainly some poor people strive to better themselves and get out of public housing; but others just accept the lousy conditions and pass this passive acceptance on to their kids, as if being on the public dole was a right.
Is it a right, or a privilege?
SobroGuy asserted that in NYC, once you qualify for public housing, the city owes it to you for life. Incredible!
On the other hand, Kefir King says that those who live in the projects are "demeaned" and therefor are owed still more from the taxpayers, to make their lives less stressful.
Opinions?
It was meant to be temporary and should be temporary. However, I do know some people who pay close to the going rates for their apartments because their income is significantly higher thanmost NYCHA residents and because it seems NYCHA wants to diversify the incomes in their buildings.
NYCHA and Section 8 have ruined a lot of people's ambition, in my opinion (I worked with Section 8 clients at one point.) I'd see a lot of clients lounging around all day, yet culd not make apointments to come see me or my colleagues about a job interview or to help them fix their resumes. Clents taught me a trick to "beat" the system: because section 8 only requires that they recertify their income annually, many would work for several months, then quit their jobs a week or two before recertifications so that they can in essence keep all the money that they've made yet still pay the same rent a person would who doesn't have any income. They'd come late or not at all to appointments, but you'd better believe that they recertified every year to keep their free or largely subsidiozed apartments.
Another trick was taught to me by Section 8 themselves: once 30% of the client's income is equal to their whole rent, they get a 6 month grace period and after that, they have effectively "earned out" of Section 8. What to do, what to do because why should THEY have to pay their own way? Well, Section 8 advised clients to move to an apartment that is more expensive so they can keep their Section 8. Say 30% is $900 and the monthly rent is $900, they phase out in 6 months. Section 8 will tell them to "upgrade" to a $1,100 a month apartment. Problem solved.
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