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Old 08-26-2012, 11:09 PM
 
228 posts, read 482,044 times
Reputation: 463

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This is what I wish I could post in every single thread where someone asks about the COL.

New York is by no means a cheap city, I think we can all agree. But does anyone else feel that people exaggerate the cost of living, making it seem like a place that's near impossible to live?

I keep reading threads asking "how much do I need to make to live comfortably in NYC?" or something to that affect, and while some do answer with the only true answer, "depends on your lifestyle", most people seem to go a bit overboard with how much you need to make to live here.

If you're looking to live in lower manhattan, eat out at fancy restaurants 3 meals a day, and buy $13 cocktails when you go out every night, then yeah, you're going to need quite a bit of money.

I understand that this forum is comprised of a lot of older people with established careers and families who may be into pursuing the finer things, but for people who are young I find that many of the threads blow things out of proportion and can be very discouraging.

You would think that you either had to have some high paying big-wig financial job or huddle into a 1 bedroom apartment with 12 of your family members in order to live here.

The truth is that there is absolutely a middle ground. From rents, to food, to entertainment, the choice is really yours! Just because you won't be able to afford a loft in Soho and eat at a michelin 3 star restaurant every time you get hungry doesn't mean that you can't live a comfortable life here and have a good time in the process.

I see people quoting figures of 150K and up for manhattan and 60-75k for the outer boros. While this may be a good figure for some people (especially in manhattan), one can live here for much cheaper without having to live in a closet and eat ramen noodles and easy mac.

There are plenty of us here in our 20s who don't have high paying salaried office jobs and who don't have financial backing from rich parents. I'm talking about people who come here to pursue things like music, acting, film, etc and live just fine working in restaurants and bars.

If you can find a room-mate or move here with a friend you could easily find a nice 2 bedroom apartment in any number of decent neighborhoods for under $2000. I'm not talking about scary and dangerous hoods, i'm talking places that are within a 20 minute commute to Manhattan, and even places that are pretty hip (code for lots of young people, night life, etc.) In neighborhoods such as Astoria, Sunnyside, Long Island City, or Greenpoint you can find 2 bedrooms in the $1600-$1800 range. I'm not talking shoeboxes either, I'm talking legit 2 bedrooms with full size rooms, nice hardwood floors, a kitchen with a full size stove and oven, and even a patio. That's only $900 per person per month. Less than $12,000 a year for rent. If the standard "rent should be 1/3 of your paycheck" rule applies here you only need to make $36,000 a year. Definitely possible to make that working at a busy bar or nice restaurant where you can potentially pull in hundreds of dollars per night.

Your next biggest expense (depending on the person of course) will probably be food. This is where your choices really dictate your cost of living. I have had some of the best meals of my life in this city for under $10. Big ass bowls of healthy and delicious thai curry, incredible gyros and kebabs, pizza for a few bucks a slice, etc. Hell, you can get a decent sized falafel sandwich for $2.50! There is such a plethora of awesome, authentic, and cheap food here that i'm actually amazed how many people overspend when they don't necessarily need to. Not to mention if you buy groceries and substitute some of your meals at home.

Same goes for entertainment. If going to a mad men style bar whipping up $14 manhattans is your thing then yeah, you will need a significant amount of money. But you can also catch happy hour at any number of bars in the city and get a flavorful craft beer for $5. Or how about a bar serving $3 tecates on a saturday night in one of the "coolest" neighborhoods in the city? There are music shows all over the city that can be as cheap as a few bucks to get in to. Some of them are even free.

Basically I just want to show other young people who are thinking about moving here that it really is doable. You can live here pretty comfortably on not all that much money.
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Old 08-26-2012, 11:44 PM
 
241 posts, read 589,601 times
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I think in part that's to normalize what people's expected standard of living. People not from the area is not going to be expecting to share with roommates. That's just NOT typical, or even socially acceptable, in most places in the USA outside NYC. People in their twenties with a decent job (not high paying) wouldn't need to worry about entertainment because cocktails are $8, not $16. So, yes, people can absolutely make choices and lower their standard of living to what their wages will allow them. But the higher quote normalize to the life they would have had in their hometown.
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Old 08-27-2012, 03:03 AM
 
3,932 posts, read 5,035,932 times
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What you describe as comfortably, sounds fairly uncomfortable.
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Old 08-27-2012, 03:08 AM
 
105,693 posts, read 107,682,511 times
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it all depends on lifestyle. where and how you live determines what you need . having money left over to save for other purposes like retirement is an important part of the plan.

having an emergency fund is a part of the plan.

not freaking out when you need a few grand in dental work is part of the plan.

heck i can live in a tent and dumpster dive and live anywhere on the cheap but i dont think ill do that.
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Old 08-27-2012, 04:00 AM
 
1,516 posts, read 1,804,222 times
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a lot of ppl live check to check and make <40k a year in manhattan

its definitely doable and believe it or not those ppl seem happy to do it.
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Old 08-27-2012, 04:13 AM
 
105,693 posts, read 107,682,511 times
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your financial life is like fighting a war. you have all these different fronts going on at the same time.

you need money to live on, money for upcoming expenses,money for the unexpected expenses and money to continue on in retirement.

the fact is the only way you can make it on 40k in this city is by pulling from one front to sure up another front.

you may think you won the battle but eventually you will lose the war unless you can cover all the fronts.

question ? what are they doing for health insurance? right now it can run a couple 12-15k even through a company.

we started to figure out our most basic expenses now that we decided to stay in ny in queens at least in the beginning years of retirement.

just figuring basic bills, healthcare and food we came out to 45k , nothing else was figured . no clothes ,gifts , unexpected expenses, things we do, vacations,dental expenses, gas etc etc...

the problem with shoe string budgets is your only okay until your not. every expense that comes down the pike is a major stress and ordeal.

some folks only know living paycheck to paycheck and life ends up being a struggle eventually.

this city is very costly . i once figured out just going to the gym what we spend a year in parking meters. its was crazy.

Last edited by mathjak107; 08-27-2012 at 05:02 AM..
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Old 08-27-2012, 05:29 AM
 
Location: Atlanta & NYC
6,616 posts, read 13,769,982 times
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I think this is a good post. It's just an example of the fact that when you're out on your own, no matter where you are, it's possible to make ends meet.
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Old 08-27-2012, 06:40 AM
 
Location: New York
477 posts, read 1,401,540 times
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Is it possible to survive in NYC without making $75k or more? Sure it is, but there is a difference between surviving and living life, and everyone's individual circumstance is going to make it possible or not to live here.

Yes it is possible to find decent 1 or 2 br apartment in a safe neighborhood, but these are not close to the train in many cases. For instance look at mill basin, marine park, parts of kensington in Brooklyn, or some apartments in Manhattan on the east side. I find as a general rule that the further away from a subway the cheaper the rent. During nice weather walking 4 avenues to get to the train might not seems so bad, but in the winter on unshoveled or icy sidewalks it will be a serious PIA.

Someone making 75k with student loans, credit card debt and no savings is going to have a very different experience than someone making the same salary with 10k saved to start and no debt whatsoever. Rent and utilities are expensive, and those alone can eat up half your salary right there if you are not making that much to begin with. Electric alone varies from apartment to apartment, my electric bill was approx $100 a month and I was barely home, my friends that lived in the East Village used to get $300/month bills in the summer even though they did not run the a/c all that often. Its a crapshoot, you just never know what you are going to get. The previous tenants warned them, but they felt because they were hardly ever home (they were both doctors and on call frequenty) that this wouldn't apply to them.

The other factor is going to be what type of lifestyle a person wants to live. If you want to go out every weekend, go shopping once a month or even join a nice gym, these things cost $$$. If you are happy living on ramen noodles just to live in the big city so be it, but you can do that anywhere. I always felt like if you can't afford to enjoy what the city has to offer what is the point of being here?

The main thing one has to think about is what you want out of living here, and if that type of lifestyle is possible. Sacrifices will have to be made unless one makes a lot of $.
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Old 08-27-2012, 07:16 AM
 
Location: Manhattan
25,341 posts, read 36,840,879 times
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Quote:
Sacrifices will have to be made unless one makes a lot of $
Economics is the study of distribution of scarce resources among an insatiable population. Thus sacrifices will ALWAYS have to be made.
(A man with one piece of bread wants TWO; a man with a 30 room mansion wants a 30 room mansion ON A BEACH. A bam with a beautiful wife wants a beautiful wife AND a beautiful mistress.)

Balance is finding some degree of contentment by matching up WANTS and ability to HAVE.

Why do people exaggerate the cost of New York? Perhaps to make themselves seem more CAPABLE, more able to win against all odds? That plus the fact that it IS the most expensive city in the United States...I think few would dispute that.
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Old 08-27-2012, 07:22 AM
 
Location: New York
477 posts, read 1,401,540 times
Reputation: 297
Sacrifices are made no matter where you live, but in NYC things that may be "standard" for most of the country are not here. Things that people not from here don't realize that are luxuries like dishwashers, elevators, on site laundry, having a car are not standard and to live here, giving these things up is a must if you have a limited budget.

Want to go out every weekend for dinner and drinks or go on a shopping spree? If you don't make that much money you might have to cut back somewhere else.

The point is, money does not go very far here, and people who are not from here may underestimate how much things actually cost and overestimate how much money they will actually bring home.
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