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I have a cousin my age in Italy that is in the same boat I'm in...can't find a job in her field and has to settle for a crappy one. But she doesn't have to pay $600 a month out of her pocket for health insurance and has NO student loans because college is almost free. If things do not improve for me in NYC, I will be joining the rest of my family in Italy in the next few years.
At this point in my life, and I was neeever a big supporter of the socialist system, I am very fond of the the idea of social programs. Specifically, subsidized tuition, longer vacations, universal healthcare and paid maternity leave. The idea of having children in this climate is absolutely frightening. If it weren't for the immediate family here, I would leave for Europe in a heartbeat. There are so many things I'm disenchanted with, the more I read and the more I witness the less I'm convinced that this country is for me. It's just such a mechanical apparatus, and I don't feel like I want to be a part of it. When I was younger everything seemed so much more ideal, now I can clearly see that the people in this country are gently and very carefully nudged into the lull, and I've definitely fallen victim to it as well. It's this great, aggrandized, extremely subtle but unyielding conditioning, that's so magnificently clever that you don't realize it, and then all of a sudden you wake up and you're part of this collective system that you don't remember consciously joining. I thought that when we left Soviet Union, we left that deceptive and all encompassing system, but this is the other side of the same coin I've realized.
It's sort of like saying that you prefer to shop in big stores because there is more attention paid to better quality, and they have a great return policy, so it's unlikely you'll make a mistake and chances are you'll be happy with your product because you can just take it back if you're not. What you don't realize is that this sort of thinking encourages you to buy more stuff that you probably don't need, knowing that "you can always return it." The rigid return policies, however, make you examine your needs. Do you really need it? And you just naturally start falling in line with this sort of thinking pattern. You may chose to be selective, but this massive country breeds this sort of herd like thinking. We are unique, we are isolated, everyone is jealous of us, let build bigger, let's build more, let's create excess, let our revenue surpass the rest. Work work work, for the future of our generations, for better economic opportunities. It's very systematic, and reminds me of this Soviet mentality. It's us against the rest, thus we must be better in everything. We know the way, we have the answer to human freedom. We did find out that that was one massive facade. Anyway, that was totally off the subject.
If I were in your situation, having family in Italy that is, I would move in a heartbeat.
At this point in my life, and I was neeever a big supporter of the socialist system, I am very fond of the the idea of social programs. Specifically, subsidized tuition, longer vacations, universal healthcare and paid maternity leave. The idea of having children in this climate is absolutely frightening. If it weren't for the immediate family here, I would leave for Europe in a heartbeat. There are so many things I'm disenchanted with, the more I read and the more I witness the less I'm convinced that this country is for me. It's just such a mechanical apparatus, and I don't feel like I want to be a part of it. When I was younger everything seemed so much more ideal, now I can clearly see that the people in this country are gently and very carefully nudged into the lull, and I've definitely fallen victim to it as well. It's this great, aggrandized, extremely subtle but unyielding conditioning, that's so magnificently clever that you don't realize it, and then all of a sudden you wake up and you're part of this collective system that you don't remember consciously joining. I thought that when we left Soviet Union, we left that deceptive and all encompassing system, but this is the other side of the same coin I've realized.
I also was never a big supporter of socialist systems until I saw how broken things are here with the healthcare. My student loans are defaulting because I am paying $600 a month for private health insurance and have to choose between one, obviously my health is more important. I did not take them out for a degree in underwater basket weaving, but for teaching...something that used to guaranteed job upon graduation and still was at the time I took out the loans. Well, I think we all know how that field is now. I have spent the last several months traveling all over the city groveling for part-time after school tutoring positions because that's all I can find right now. That's after 3 years of trying to land a full-time position in the NYC public schools, which won't take you unless you have the special ed certification. I did interview for a full-time job that came with benefits teaching in a hospital in NY but guess what? They received so many applicants that the very same job is now being posted as a part-time job with NO benefits at all. And I know a hospital can very well afford to pay for basic health insurance. Employers are absolutely disgusting me these days with what they can get away with.
Like you, if it weren't for my immediate family I would have relocated to Italy by now. Maybe in a few years they can be convinced to join me. And my student loans also won't follow me overseas...I don't care how that sounds but I did all the right things to find employment that would allow me to pay them back. If people can declare bankruptcy from running up all their credit cards eating out and going on vacations they can't afford, then people should be allowed to do the same with student loans after submitting lengthy proof (like I have) of job searching.
At this point in my life, and I was neeever a big supporter of the socialist system, I am very fond of the the idea of social programs. Specifically, subsidized tuition, longer vacations, universal healthcare and paid maternity leave. The idea of having children in this climate is absolutely frightening. If it weren't for the immediate family here, I would leave for Europe in a heartbeat. There are so many things I'm disenchanted with, the more I read and the more I witness the less I'm convinced that this country is for me. It's just such a mechanical apparatus, and I don't feel like I want to be a part of it. When I was younger everything seemed so much more ideal, now I can clearly see that the people in this country are gently and very carefully nudged into the lull, and I've definitely fallen victim to it as well. It's this great, aggrandized, extremely subtle but unyielding conditioning, that's so magnificently clever that you don't realize it, and then all of a sudden you wake up and you're part of this collective system that you don't remember consciously joining. I thought that when we left Soviet Union, we left that deceptive and all encompassing system, but this is the other side of the same coin I've realized.
It's sort of like saying that you prefer to shop in big stores because there is more attention paid to better quality, and they have a great return policy, so it's unlikely you'll make a mistake and chances are you'll be happy with your product because you can just take it back if you're not. What you don't realize is that this sort of thinking encourages you to buy more stuff that you probably don't need, knowing that "you can always return it." The rigid return policies, however, make you examine your needs. Do you really need it? And you just naturally start falling in line with this sort of thinking pattern. You may chose to be selective, but this massive country breeds this sort of herd like thinking. We are unique, we are isolated, everyone is jealous of us, let build bigger, let's build more, let's create excess, let our revenue surpass the rest. Work work work, for the future of our generations, for better economic opportunities. It's very systematic, and reminds me of this Soviet mentality. It's us against the rest, thus we must be better in everything. We know the way, we have the answer to human freedom. We did find out that that was one massive facade. Anyway, that was totally off the subject.
If I were in your situation, having family in Italy that is, I would move in a heartbeat.
The US is the best country in the world for a certain group of people. They are those who make a solid upper middle class or beyond living. The US affords them more than any other country because everything here is cheap relative to their pay. Electronics, food, clothing, housing, schools, taxes. etc. As a market for goods and services the US is very cost effective for those consumers that can afford it.
On the other hand, for many others the US is no better and in some ways much worse than many other countries. Except for a few states in the NE and CA and for those willing to exploit the system, there really isn't much of a safety net. In addition, the US doesn't offer much in the way of weather, community atmosphere, healthy living, etc.
Thankfully, I have a job that pays semi decently for a kid my age still living at home but I'm giving serious consideration to moving abroad. I just don't see things getting better in the foreseeable future for my generation. I'm sure a boom will come sooner or later but I may be in my 40's by then and things will be set in stone. The point is that the US doesn't offer the best mediocre existence anymore. It's better to lead a mediocre life in many other countries where the weather is great, the food isn't all corn, salt, and sugar, the people look and feel healthy, and there's a real sense of community and culture. Cheap is great but the Wal-Martization of America has it's price.
I'm certainly not taking a crap on the US because my parents were immigrants and the US afforded them (and myself) a much better life than they otherwise would have had. However, they came at a time (late 80's) when through sheer hard work alone one could build a solid life in the US. That's not the case anymore. Hard word alone doesn't count for **** in our time. We're in a new economy where in demand skills are valued much more but it is also much less of a meritocracy than in decades past. Nowadays it really is more important to be lucky than good than in days past. I'm not saying it's necessarily bad. It's the ebb and flow of history. Especially in a country which has constantly undergone rapid changes. It is what it is but most Americans won't see the good times for another few decades at the very least.
Last edited by wawaweewa; 09-05-2012 at 06:54 PM..
They also have off 5-6 weeks of vacation time a year, where in NYC we have to grovel for crappy jobs in which we are lucky to get 2 weeks a year. And when we do get that 2 weeks vacation, employers seem to get annoyed when you want to use it...not in Italy.
I have a cousin my age in Italy that is in the same boat I'm in...can't find a job in her field and has to settle for a crappy one. But she doesn't have to pay $600 a month out of her pocket for health insurance and has NO student loans because college is almost free. If things do not improve for me in NYC, I will be joining the rest of my family in Italy in the next few years.
5-6 weeks of vacation time a year? Really?!? What a complete exaggeration!
Italian people usually get 4 weeks of vacation time a year... Ma gli italiani fanno davvero più ferie degli altri? | Linkiesta.it
And is your cousin able to afford an apartment? A lot of young adults in Italy live with their parents even when they are almost 40... the grass is not always greener.
P.S. I'm italian living in NYC and I prefer NYC over ANY italian big city.
5-6 weeks of vacation time a year? Really?!? What a complete exaggeration!
Italian people usually get 4 weeks of vacation time a year... Ma gli italiani fanno davvero più ferie degli altri? | Linkiesta.it
And is your cousin able to afford an apartment? A lot of young adults in Italy live with their parents even when they are almost 40... the grass is not always greener.
P.S. I'm italian living in NYC and I prefer NYC over ANY italian big city.
My brother, in the UK, has 6 weeks paid vacation and all national holidays, which are about 5, I think.
As for the phenomenon of grown-up Italian men living with their moms - its the same in Staten Island ;-)
But your question is far too broad. It is irritating that people answer with statements like "Germans are...this" "Italians are ....that".
I have lived all over the world, and in many of the places discussed. You can't generalize. At all.
Germans from Schleswig-Holstein (N. Germany except Hamburg) are different from Hessians (Frankfurt), and they are different from people in Stuttgart (Baden Wurtenburg), Bavaria (Munich), or Berlin. Okay? And there are pockets of avant-garde, cultural/ethnic enclaves, etc. etc. in each one of those places.
You are interested in France? France...where? The Jura? Cote d'Azur? Paris? Normandie? Champagne region?
Italy -- each region is vastly different. Sicilians are a whole different deal from Milanese, who are different from Umbrians, Venetians, Romans, etc.......
You get the picture.
Americans move back and forth to Europe all the time, and Australia, Japan, China, and every other place in the world. It is not exactly an unknown concept.
I will say that, in my view, New York has more in common with London than any other city in the U.S., and probably any other city in the world. I mean that in diversity, ethnic representation, sharp divide between wealth and poverty, liberal Weltansschauung, availability of educational opportunities, mass transport, and filth and grime, the two cities are alike.
Contrasts between London and N.Y. have been thoroughly covered on this board by me and lots of others. Search it.
But ask specific questions about specific places and you will get better answers.
I have lived all over the world, and in many of the places discussed. You can't generalize. At all.
Contrasts between London and N.Y. have been thoroughly covered on this board by me and lots of others. Search it.
But ask specific questions about specific places and you will get better answers.
This seems to come up over and over again, despite my clarification in numerous posts and and my original post as well. I'm not asking to generalize, I'm not asking to compare the entire world in unison and in one statement to NYC.
I'm simply asking those who lived in Europe to share their impressions on various differences and lifestyles between foreign lands and NYC. Clearly they are all different, I think one has to be really thick-headed to think that you can collect the entire planet under one description. I just don't understand why this point keeps being reiterated. I almost feel like people stop reading after the first line of my post and just respond. I'm not going to list the entire list and ask people to fill in.
Perhaps I should do something like this.
1. Please compare Berlin to NYC
2. Please compare Madrid to NYC
3. Please compare Talinn to NYC
4. Please compare London to NYC
5. Please compare Paris to NYC
6. ....etc.
7. etc.
Disclaimer: please note, that you don't have to respond if you have never been to any of these places. Pointing out that "they are all different" and "charming in their own way," isn't really necessary either, unless you want to add some points to your number of posts. Also, having the need to say that "it was great, but I like NYC better," without any further elaboration amounts to a fart in the wind.
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Really?!? What a complete exaggeration! 
