U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > New York > New York City
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
 
Old 09-04-2012, 12:06 PM
 
1,494 posts, read 2,548,645 times
Reputation: 928

Advertisements

A neighbor of mine (rent controlled) is moving out to a nursing home after the new year and has limited means for clearing out the apartment. She still has her original lease (that paper was nearly disintegrating), and it DOES NOT have a "broom clean" stipulation, but instead states that she must deliver the premises in "good order and condition"... While I did time as a broker long ago, I don't know the difference in legal definitions and I've never seen a lease without the broom clean clause. Anyone know what "in good order and condition" means legally? Just trying to help a neighbor out, she doesn't have family willing to help her remove her items, so she's thinking of leaving everything behind.

PS- I did recommend that she speak with a lawyer but I got the impression that she can't afford counsel.
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 09-04-2012, 01:11 PM
 
Location: NY,NY
2,896 posts, read 9,298,459 times
Reputation: 2053
Just have her speak with the LL, or you can do it on her behalf.

I guarantee 100% the LL won't give a dmn iif she leaves everything behind. He'll probably dance a ***!

Why?

If it is rent CONTROLLED like you said, then he's been subsidizing her for quite some time, and now that is over!! Happy days!

The cost of hiring a dumpster, and a few guys to clear the apt is neglible.

Now, the LL can bring that apt to Market Rent!

In order to do so, he's going to do a gut rehab. So, he's going to tear that apt out. Likely floors, walls, cabinets, appliances, everything; so, her stuff, as I said is neglible.

She has little to worry about. Just have her take her most precious things and reminders, and that is that. Turn over the keys and the apt, and that is that.

If it makes her or you feel more comfortable, speak with the LL, come to agreement, then either email, regular mail, a letter detailing your phone conversation: "As per our telephone communication of 'date', blah, blah...you have agreed to accept the apt in an "as is" condition, and to release the tenant from any and all liability". You can ask for the return of the security deposit (if any); or, you can exchange it for the agreement and release, as compensation.

Besides, what is the LL going to do? Withhold her security? How much could that be for a rent controlled tenant? Sue her for the cost of removal and cleaning? In my experience, in THIS particular circumstance, senior going to a nursing home, there isn't a Judge in this City that'll sign such a Judgment; even though legally he should. Every Judge will deny the Complaint and leave the LL to appeal (which is unlikely!).

Besides, other than the meager security deposit, I presume the senior tenant has little financial means? Assuming so, the LL could sue, and even win a judgment, but there is no mone avaiillable to recover, anyway!

So, its all sorta moot. Only an idiot LL and/or a very new to the game LL will make a big deal.

****

As to your original question, the Lease was likely written before such standards as in that clause was incorporated and made inherent in the law.

In other words, the Law *now* requires that a tenant turn over the apt in good order and condition. Consequently, there is no need for a special lease provision.

As a result, now it is only necessary to stipulate in the lease that the property be left "broom clean", which is not as directly meant to imply 'cleanliness' (which of course it does), but more directly that the apt is left in an 'as rented' conditiion, "void" of anything.

Good condition and order, speaks directly to any physical damage to the apt, such as holes in the walls, broken appliances, fixtures, etc.

Of course, all in consideration of 'normal' wear and tear.
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-04-2012, 04:22 PM
 
1,494 posts, read 2,548,645 times
Reputation: 928
Quote:
Originally Posted by jcoltrane View Post
Just have her speak with the LL, or you can do it on her behalf.

I guarantee 100% the LL won't give a dmn iif she leaves everything behind. He'll probably dance a ***!

Why?

If it is rent CONTROLLED like you said, then he's been subsidizing her for quite some time, and now that is over!! Happy days!

The cost of hiring a dumpster, and a few guys to clear the apt is neglible.

Now, the LL can bring that apt to Market Rent!

In order to do so, he's going to do a gut rehab. So, he's going to tear that apt out. Likely floors, walls, cabinets, appliances, everything; so, her stuff, as I said is neglible.

She has little to worry about. Just have her take her most precious things and reminders, and that is that. Turn over the keys and the apt, and that is that.

If it makes her or you feel more comfortable, speak with the LL, come to agreement, then either email, regular mail, a letter detailing your phone conversation: "As per our telephone communication of 'date', blah, blah...you have agreed to accept the apt in an "as is" condition, and to release the tenant from any and all liability". You can ask for the return of the security deposit (if any); or, you can exchange it for the agreement and release, as compensation.

Besides, what is the LL going to do? Withhold her security? How much could that be for a rent controlled tenant? Sue her for the cost of removal and cleaning? In my experience, in THIS particular circumstance, senior going to a nursing home, there isn't a Judge in this City that'll sign such a Judgment; even though legally he should. Every Judge will deny the Complaint and leave the LL to appeal (which is unlikely!).

Besides, other than the meager security deposit, I presume the senior tenant has little financial means? Assuming so, the LL could sue, and even win a judgment, but there is no mone avaiillable to recover, anyway!

So, its all sorta moot. Only an idiot LL and/or a very new to the game LL will make a big deal.

****

As to your original question, the Lease was likely written before such standards as in that clause was incorporated and made inherent in the law.

In other words, the Law *now* requires that a tenant turn over the apt in good order and condition. Consequently, there is no need for a special lease provision.

As a result, now it is only necessary to stipulate in the lease that the property be left "broom clean", which is not as directly meant to imply 'cleanliness' (which of course it does), but more directly that the apt is left in an 'as rented' conditiion, "void" of anything.

Good condition and order, speaks directly to any physical damage to the apt, such as holes in the walls, broken appliances, fixtures, etc.

Of course, all in consideration of 'normal' wear and tear.
Awesome, many thanks! I volunteered to help her with any paperwork related to this, her eyesight is very bad and she has trouble reading documents- which is why I took a look at her lease. I had the feeling the LL would just want her out and leave it at that, but she has a LOT of stuff to abandon. It's not just her eyesight that's going, a walk-up is no place for a senior to live, the stairs are just too much and she has trouble just getting out to buy food and picking up her prescriptions. Funny thing is, she has a few freeloader grandkids vying for her apartment (which they couldn't legally succeed in the first place since they're not living with her) but they never visit, or help her with shopping, etc... so she's telling them to go F themselves.
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-05-2012, 07:18 AM
 
Location: Manhattan
23,786 posts, read 33,205,504 times
Reputation: 11455
In reality, most landlords are so thrilled to get an apartment off rent control they will be happy to take back the apartment even if filled with livestock and crack manufacturing equipment.
He can pretty much ask any rent his black little heart desires, perhaps even so much as to take it out of stabilization controls completely.

If some jackass wants to make a legal fuss about condition, any judge in his right mind will realize what "normal wear and tear" will do to an apartment over 40 or 50 years and laugh him out of court.
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-05-2012, 03:15 PM
 
1,494 posts, read 2,548,645 times
Reputation: 928
I'm sure the LL will be thrilled, her apartment is huge and will probably rent for around 4-5k when renovated. Her current rent is something like $300 a month.
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-06-2012, 08:20 AM
 
Location: Manhattan
23,786 posts, read 33,205,504 times
Reputation: 11455
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alkonost View Post
I'm sure the LL will be thrilled, her apartment is huge and will probably rent for around 4-5k when renovated. Her current rent is something like $300 a month.
Can I be her reclusive "son" who has been living with her surreptitiously for the last 2 years?
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-06-2012, 02:20 PM
 
1,494 posts, read 2,548,645 times
Reputation: 928
Sure but you'd have to get in line Her grandkids all want the apartment from what I hear.
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-06-2012, 04:42 PM
 
Location: Manhattan
23,786 posts, read 33,205,504 times
Reputation: 11455
Reminds me of the SEINFELD episode where a woman had died and the wake was in her lovely 2 bedroom rent-controlled apartment and everyone said the same thing: "We are so sorry for your loss...how much was she paying."
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:




Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > New York > New York City
View detailed profiles of:

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2022, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top