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Evidently it's not perfectly fine, in case you didn't notice the old lady was brutally raped there. Again, not a shocker to those who know about the Ramble.
But this is the first time I've heard about the area being unsafe. If it does indeed [still] have the level of danger that you claim, and it is a hotspot for tourists, naturists, and bird watchers (which a Google search does confirm) wouldn't one hear of more incidents like this one? There are plenty of ares in NYC that are "safe" but that doesn't exclude the possibility of violence of this nature.
But this is the first time I've heard about the area being unsafe. If it does indeed [still] have the level of danger that you claim, and it is a hotspot for tourists, naturists, and bird watchers (which a Google search does confirm) wouldn't one hear of more incidents like this one? There are plenty of ares in NYC that are "safe" but that doesn't exclude the possibility of violence of this nature.
The only reason this case is getting attention is that a poor old birdwatcher being raped by a homeless man is a hot news item. Just like you don't hear about murders and other things on the news unless the victim was cute, young and white. There's a false sense of safety all over NYC, just because there are more tourists around doesn't mean the seedy element has vanished. Maybe you didn't know anyone who stumbled across the pervs lurking in the bushes. I saw some creepy **** when I wandered there unwittingly. Most of other NYers I know had the same thing to report, and my gay friends were all like "Oh, yeah. Big time well-known perv-sex-pick-up-spot. How do you think Eddie got herpes and Nate picked up the clap? It wasn't at the vault, let me tell you!"
There's a false sense of security in general. Sure, it's not the 80's but crime is still part of the ambiance. In the 70's and 80's criminals and the shady element were flagrant. Just because crime and scum aren't in your face as much as it used to be, doesn't mean it isn't' there.
While I can now walk down the street in my neighborhood at 3am without worrying too much, I still look behind my back and cross the street if I think someone might be following.
There are some douchebags in my building who lets their 10 buddies use the building roof (where access is prohibited but not locked down) as their private beer pong patio. Little did they know someone was knifed up there, and drug deals go down there all the time, but there's also the EV robber at large who loves to skip across rooftops and access people's fire escapes. When informed of this in casual conversation they were completely agasp "THERE'S CRIME?!?!?!?!?!" they questioned in disbelief. YEeeeesssss, there's crime EVERYWHERE. It's still NYC even if there's a new coat of paint, you gotta watch your back.
Yeah, you're right in everything you say, but your perspective is one who, I presume lived thru either the 70s, 80s or both; and, one who apparently continues to live in a somewhat dicey neighborhood.
So, *you* have that streetsmart guard (maybe even 'spidey sense'), but Transplants and those living in "safe" Manhattan don't, they believe the hype and the propaganda. You, a NYer (native or long term) are naturally skeptical, at best, and disbelieving, at worst.
The folks frequenting Central Park regularly, generally, live in Manhattan neighborhoods perceived as "safe"! Central Park itself, compared to decades past, is certainly "safe".
So for these folks, it is indeed shocking. Think about, they are employed, the people they know are employed, and the recession isn't having too great effect upon them.
Yet, you know and I know, there is a segment of the population that is really hurting behind the recession; either unemployed or under employed.
Nothing new about it, except the timing perhaps, but elements of this group are turning to whatever means to survive. Many are slowly becoming desperate, falling to depths they never would have, if they could have maintained their life status.
This "Russian" attacker sounds like such a person. Before the recession, anyone ever see or hear of a "homeless" Russian or Eastern Euro immigrant homeless?
I will venture to say, no!
I figure the guy has, not too long ago, lost his job, his home, and his way. Enough time down and out, with absolutely no support system (as an immigrant; as an immigrant likely versed in work, not handouts), one is bound to start to lose little bits of one's sanity.
Think about it. A person like that, recently homeless, having lost contact with the normal world, and normal people. Homeless long enough you lose *contact* and/or interaction with people and normality. This is why you note a good many homeless who talk to themselves. They are not crazy, at least not yet fully so.
It is just that the ONLY people they 'talk' to are themselves. You might notice this same phenomenon in people not homeless, but who live alone, have few, if any, friends or relatives, and consequently have very little human interaction. Often, work is the only source of interaction, and then they mostly keep to themselves and/or are ostracized. The weird and/or strange found everywhere.
You know everyone does it, speaks to themselves. Normal people do it occasionally, and do it silently, in their minds. Too much of this, and one begins to lose consciousness of the inner nature of their thoughts, and begin to 'vocalize' their inner conversations. These folks are not crazy, just one step less than normal, one step closer to losing their sanity. Very alone and lonely people. Everyone knows at least one such individual.
Live long enough in this lost conscious state and people not only lose their inner voice capability, but then lose their inner actions as well. We all *think* of actions that we'd like to do or commit; but they stay within our minds, and they are just thoughts.
Yet, as some lose more and more of their sense of inner consciousness, the thoughts and actions, which normally would stay within the mind, begin to be acted out, in a very real, but yet 'unconscious' manner.
I suspect this is what happened.
The Russian, homeless and living more and more within his mind, and with his thoughts and actions becoming more and more unconscious, one becomes divorced from one's surroundings, and especially from people.
The guy jerking off in the bushes, isn't trying to shock anyone, and is likely NOT a pervert. Rather something likely triggered his sexual urges, and, living in an unconscious mind state, simply acts out, in reality, what for him, is in his mind..
The woman taking his pictures, causes him to snap back into reality, in other words, brings him back from the depths of his inner mind, past the veil, back into what is real and without his mind.
Snap! "This woman just took my picture" Snap! "My D is hanging out, and I'm jerking off." Snap! "I'm in public (not in m mind)!" Snap! "B*tch, gimme that camera!"
A few days later, he sees Miss picture taker. Remember, this man is not fully and consciously "in this world", in reality. He lives in his mind, and the woman has entered HIS subconscious mind, where his thoughts exist; and in his subconscious state, his thoughts are unconsciously acted out in the real world, while actually he is not. He is in his mind.
For example, everyone has had the conscious thought and desire to, smack the crap out of your boss, a coworker, your wife, your husband, some idiot on the subway. Yet, you don"t actually in reality commit the act. It remains a thought, a desire in your mind.
Yet, imagine for a moment, losing the capability to keep these thoughts within your mind. In fact, you lose the capability to distinguish between what is in your mind, and what is actually real and occurring.
If this occurs, then when you think something, you are actually doing it! Not in your mind, but in reality.
Your boss, who you simply thought of slapping. Well, in this state, you actually DO slap your boss. Only, you don't realize it is really occurring.
Coworker: "Mike, Mike, do you realize what you did???
You: ""No. What did I do?"
boss: "You are fired!"
You: "Why? What did I do?"
We've all heard and/or witnessed such things.
I believe this is likely what happened to the Russian homeless guy, and Ms Snapshot. It is the only rationality.
Is the guy a sadistic rapist, who set out to rape a 73 year old? That w/b the easy explanation. Yet, it just doesn't fit.
****
As to why the woman would take his picture? Same reason women and people snapshot and video 'perverts' on the subway. They've got a camera in hand, and it is a way to intimidate and retaliate. Even to 'control' a situation, which obviously is out of control. A lot of these pervert types have gotten caught from people shapshotting them in the act, or just after. The thing is, this woman had a *real* camera, and was purposely out to take pictures. Her action, in the circumstance, appears quite natural. Particularly, when one believes in one's "safety". A safety which proved false....
She was out to teach the "pervert" a lesson. A pervert defiling what she likely consider her park, certainly her purview. So snap, snap, you 'bad' man!
Only, I think him not a "bad" man, just a troubled man, who unconsciously committed a horrendous act; and, I'm no bleeding heart liberal. Its just how I read it.
Yeah, you're right in everything you say, but your perspective is one who, I presume lived thru either the 70s, 80s or both; and, one who apparently continues to live in a somewhat dicey neighborhood.
So, *you* have that streetsmart guard (maybe even 'spidey sense'), but Transplants and those living in "safe" Manhattan don't, they believe the hype and the propaganda. You, a NYer (native or long term) are naturally skeptical, at best, and disbelieving, at worst.
The folks frequenting Central Park regularly, generally, live in Manhattan neighborhoods perceived as "safe"! Central Park itself, compared to decades past, is certainly "safe".
So for these folks, it is indeed shocking. Think about, they are employed, the people they know are employed, and the recession isn't having too great effect upon them.
I get ya, and it's why I'm vocal about this. Denial prevents people from acquiring street smarts. It's not fun or pleasant to acknowledge that NYC can still be a rough place, and probably easier to cling to denial. It sucks that it takes a crime like this to remind people to be careful, aware of one's surroundings and not to take safety for granted.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jcoltrane
Yet, you know and I know, there is a segment of the population that is really hurting behind the recession; either unemployed or under employed.
Nothing new about it, except the timing perhaps, but elements of this group are turning to whatever means to survive. Many are slowly becoming desperate, falling to depths they never would have, if they could have maintained their life status.
This "Russian" attacker sounds like such a person. Before the recession, anyone ever see or hear of a "homeless" Russian or Eastern Euro immigrant homeless?
I will venture to say, no!
I figure the guy has, not too long ago, lost his job, his home, and his way. Enough time down and out, with absolutely no support system (as an immigrant; as an immigrant likely versed in work, not handouts), one is bound to start to lose little bits of one's sanity.
Think about it. A person like that, recently homeless, having lost contact with the normal world, and normal people. Homeless long enough you lose *contact* and/or interaction with people and normality. This is why you note a good many homeless who talk to themselves. They are not crazy, at least not yet fully so.
It is just that the ONLY people they 'talk' to are themselves. You might notice this same phenomenon in people not homeless, but who live alone, have few, if any, friends or relatives, and consequently have very little human interaction. Often, work is the only source of interaction, and then they mostly keep to themselves and/or are ostracized. The weird and/or strange found everywhere.
You know everyone does it, speaks to themselves. Normal people do it occasionally, and do it silently, in their minds. Too much of this, and one begins to lose consciousness of the inner nature of their thoughts, and begin to 'vocalize' their inner conversations. These folks are not crazy, just one step less than normal, one step closer to losing their sanity. Very alone and lonely people. Everyone knows at least one such individual.
Live long enough in this lost conscious state and people not only lose their inner voice capability, but then lose their inner actions as well. We all *think* of actions that we'd like to do or commit; but they stay within our minds, and they are just thoughts.
Yet, as some lose more and more of their sense of inner consciousness, the thoughts and actions, which normally would stay within the mind, begin to be acted out, in a very real, but yet 'unconscious' manner.
I suspect this is what happened.
The Russian, homeless and living more and more within his mind, and with his thoughts and actions becoming more and more unconscious, one becomes divorced from one's surroundings, and especially from people.
The guy jerking off in the bushes, isn't trying to shock anyone, and is likely NOT a pervert. Rather something likely triggered his sexual urges, and, living in an unconscious mind state, simply acts out, in reality, what for him, is in his mind..
The woman taking his pictures, causes him to snap back into reality, in other words, brings him back from the depths of his inner mind, past the veil, back into what is real and without his mind.
Snap! "This woman just took my picture" Snap! "My D is hanging out, and I'm jerking off." Snap! "I'm in public (not in m mind)!" Snap! "B*tch, gimme that camera!"
A few days later, he sees Miss picture taker. Remember, this man is not fully and consciously "in this world", in reality. He lives in his mind, and the woman has entered HIS subconscious mind, where his thoughts exist; and in his subconscious state, his thoughts are unconsciously acted out in the real world, while actually he is not. He is in his mind.
For example, everyone has had the conscious thought and desire to, smack the crap out of your boss, a coworker, your wife, your husband, some idiot on the subway. Yet, you don"t actually in reality commit the act. It remains a thought, a desire in your mind.
Yet, imagine for a moment, losing the capability to keep these thoughts within your mind. In fact, you lose the capability to distinguish between what is in your mind, and what is actually real and occurring.
If this occurs, then when you think something, you are actually doing it! Not in your mind, but in reality.
Your boss, who you simply thought of slapping. Well, in this state, you actually DO slap your boss. Only, you don't realize it is really occurring.
Coworker: "Mike, Mike, do you realize what you did???
You: ""No. What did I do?"
boss: "You are fired!"
You: "Why? What did I do?"
We've all heard and/or witnessed such things.
I believe this is likely what happened to the Russian homeless guy, and Ms Snapshot. It is the only rationality.
Is the guy a sadistic rapist, who set out to rape a 73 year old? That w/b the easy explanation. Yet, it just doesn't fit.
****
From the articles on the arrest he's got a criminal history and served hard time. I'm glad they caught the guy, so I'm hoping we'll have some answers on what scrambled his noggin. I'm not experienced in treating mental illness but you've got a lot of interesting points. I suspect drug use can cause the problem with losing the inner consciousness, an acquaintance of mine years ago got sucked into the druggie culture and would describe strange mental states where her inner mental voice and physical speech was so blurry she couldn't tell if she was thinking inner thoughts or expressing them verbally. Sadly things didn't end well for her, she was almost always so stoned she couldn't interact with people.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jcoltrane
As to why the woman would take his picture? Same reason women and people snapshot and video 'perverts' on the subway. They've got a camera in hand, and it is a way to intimidate and retaliate. Even to 'control' a situation, which obviously is out of control. A lot of these pervert types have gotten caught from people shapshotting them in the act, or just after. The thing is, this woman had a *real* camera, and was purposely out to take pictures. Her action, in the circumstance, appears quite natural. Particularly, when one believes in one's "safety". A safety which proved false....
She was out to teach the "pervert" a lesson. A pervert defiling what she likely consider her park, certainly her purview. So snap, snap, you 'bad' man!
Only, I think him not a "bad" man, just a troubled man, who unconsciously committed a horrendous act; and, I'm no bleeding heart liberal. Its just how I read it.
I'm sure in her mind she was trying to do the right thing, but it's not always the smart thing.
Can you link em? Is she quoted on it or is it up in the air?
I don't think she was quoted, although if they are saying it was inadvertent, then I guess she must have either used the word with the police or indicated she didn't take it on purpose. However, it's kind of unclear since different news sources are saying different things.
I read that the attacker had her memory card on him, so maybe one day we will see the photo in question, although probably not til the trial is over.
Wait--so we're fussing over whether or not she "inadvertently" took his picture (thereby subtly placing responsibility on her for provoking him) but somehow he's:
Quote:
...not a "bad" man, just a troubled man, who unconsciously committed a horrendous act; and, I'm no bleeding heart liberal. Its just how I read it."
This is literally unbelievable. STOP NORMALIZING WHAT HE DID. The CRIME he committed, the VIOLENT SEXUAL ACT he chose to do, willingly, knowingly. No one "unconsciously" commits rape. It is a vicious physical attack meant to punish in the most intimate way possible, using the victim's own body against them, so they will never be free of what happened to them. Jesus, you guys. STOP MINIMIZING THIS. Rape is a hate crime, not some kind of side effect like profanity is to Tourette's syndrome. His own words ("do you remember me?") prove he knew what he was doing--he was retaliating for their previous encounter. Stop trying to make this anything other than what this was--a violent act meant to remind her she was just a stupid female and he could punish her at will.
Attitudes like this are why rape convictions rates are so low, even when we have the attack on tape or with witnesses. Jurors just don't want to believe that rape is really THAT big a deal. Truly I wish more men would go to prison--that environment for men is the only one that replicates the fear and rape awareness every woman deals with--*has* to deal with, for her own safety--EVERY DAY.
Wait--so we're fussing over whether or not she "inadvertently" took his picture (thereby subtly placing responsibility on her for provoking him) but somehow he's:
This is literally unbelievable. STOP NORMALIZING WHAT HE DID. The CRIME he committed, the VIOLENT SEXUAL ACT he chose to do, willingly, knowingly. No one "unconsciously" commits rape. It is a vicious physical attack meant to punish in the most intimate way possible, using the victim's own body against them, so they will never be free of what happened to them. Jesus, you guys. STOP MINIMIZING THIS. Rape is a hate crime, not some kind of side effect like profanity is to Tourette's syndrome. His own words ("do you remember me?") prove he knew what he was doing--he was retaliating for their previous encounter. Stop trying to make this anything other than what this was--a violent act meant to remind her she was just a stupid female and he could punish her at will.
Attitudes like this are why rape convictions rates are so low, even when we have the attack on tape or with witnesses. Jurors just don't want to believe that rape is really THAT big a deal. Truly I wish more men would go to prison--that environment for men is the only one that replicates the fear and rape awareness every woman deals with--*has* to deal with, for her own safety--EVERY DAY.
Yes, this I agree with this statement.
I can understand the man being pissed that she took a picture of him un-zipped and I can understand him looking to rob her camera, break it or even punching her in the face out of fear and anger.
But rape, no, that there was no excuse for that.
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