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Old 09-17-2012, 08:12 PM
 
4,571 posts, read 4,368,352 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SobroGuy View Post


Like I said...you should really enjoy life in China..where you serve your dog a treat and it dies from poisoning. Or you brush your teeth with toothpaste and get sick from mercury. That's life without those pesky government regulations....GO and be FREE to have corporations make you sick and exploit you all for a buck, under the guise of FREEDOM. ENJOY!
\

Damn...no wonder the price of mercury skyrocketed since chinese learned to make their own toothpaste....

Your comments reminded me of that chinese used to believe that shaking hands with an american could contract them HIV when the AIDs epidemic first emerged in America back in the early 90s. How funny people tend to portrait each other
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Old 09-17-2012, 08:17 PM
 
69,643 posts, read 52,347,180 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MobileVisitor09 View Post
SobroGuy: And when people don't have insurance to pay for their bad habits, the government (aka taxpayers) pay for their lifetime of treatments, and if they can't work due to these health problems the government (aka taxpayers) support them for life.



This isn't really related to the soda ban debate, but, just to clarify:

No hospital is legally permitted to deny a patient emergency medical care or care for childbirth; however, they are allowed to refer a non-emergency patient to an outside physician or clinic (without being seen), and/or transfer an emergency patient to another facility once stabilized.

I believe what he was getting at was the following: Low-income individuals without health insurance (whether working PT, not eligible for subsidized insurance, illegal residents, etc.), will put off a visit to a primary care physician for a preventable/treatable condition due to lack of funds. The condition often exacerbates over time due to lack of treatment, and eventually the individual ends up in the emergency room of a hospital. As mentioned, virtually no hospital is permitted to deny a patient emergency care (if they enter through ER); these individuals are 'billed later' or put on a payment plan, but, research shows these bills are rarely paid in their entirety, if, at all. The 'billed' amount for these types of visits ends up in collections, and, the hospital eventually writes it off as bad debt. To recoup the funds lost from these types of transactions, it has been argued that hospitals practice cost-shifting and increase rates for insured patients, (i.e., my astronomical $2K bill at Hopkins for an IV and a shot last year), contributing to medical inflation, and subsequently extra burden on the insured.
Unhealthy people tend to die out pretty young, ironically....healthy people can quite feasibly be just as big of a health burden because they live to be 90+.

Just throwing out some food for thought. In particular, smokers tend to be a windfall for the government since they don't collect 20-30 years of social security etc. like others do.

Per your logic above, should we start sterilizing poor moms after they pop out their first couple kids? I mean they are grossly burdening the financial system.

I guess I'm wondering where all the social programming in this thread will end.
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Old 09-17-2012, 08:19 PM
 
69,643 posts, read 52,347,180 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by leoliu View Post
\

Damn...no wonder the price of mercury skyrocketed since chinese learned to make their own toothpaste....

Your comments reminded me of that chinese used to believe that shaking hands with an american could contract them HIV when the AIDs epidemic first emerged in America back in the early 90s. How funny people tend to portrait each other
Um, there is a reason why my buddy from china took back a suitcase full of powdered milk the last time he was here.
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Old 09-17-2012, 08:27 PM
 
69,643 posts, read 52,347,180 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SobroGuy View Post
Mathguy..banning transfats is not consumption...you still get to eat your fried chicken, just without the part of it which may cause a heartattack! While your at it, you should probably be complaining about the government taking ecoli and cow feces out of your ground beef...how dare they...FREEDOM!

Like I said...you should really enjoy life in China..where you serve your dog a treat and it dies from poisoning. Or you brush your teeth with toothpaste and get sick from mercury. That's life without those pesky government regulations....GO and be FREE to have corporations make you sick and exploit you all for a buck, under the guise of FREEDOM. ENJOY!

Secondly...the goverment is not affecting your choices. Instead of getting a 60 ounce coke, you have to buy 5 12 ounce cokes...so where is the restriction? Using your argument, you should be complaining to Coke that they don't offer a 120 ounce coke....they are restricting your freedom to make your own choices. You choose to have a 120 ounce and they won't give it to you...demand FREEDOM and demand your 120 ounce Coke...right?
Ah. I see the light now. I now think like you guys.

Single moms are a proven drain on society with their kids more likely to have criminal records and many many other problems.

Perhaps we need to protect women from themselves and have mandatory abortions and birthcontrol for unwed women. They rack up medical bills too that WE have to pay for.

What's next in the name of public savings? More death penalties? Restrictions on certain races or "castes" to have kids?
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Old 09-17-2012, 08:37 PM
 
Location: Baltimore, MD / NY
781 posts, read 1,125,798 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mathguy View Post
Unhealthy people tend to die out pretty young, ironically....healthy people can quite feasibly be just as big of a health burden because they live to be 90+.
Not arguing with you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mathguy View Post
Just throwing out some food for thought. In particular, smokers tend to be a windfall for the government since they don't collect 20-30 years of social security etc. like others do.
Not always. I'm not a health economist, but from the grad health policy coursework I've taken in the past, especially in reference to what we were discussing, the uninsured and how it taxes the system (literally and figuratively)--your smoker may die earlier than others saving some SS, but, if that uninsured smoker puts off treatment for years, and finally ends up in the ER, the hospital is legally forced to treat for the severe, comorbid conditions, (i.e., MI, emphysema, CVD), and those bills leading up their demise can be in the thousands. Especially if there's multiple ER visits prior to the end. And, as we were discussing, bad debt eventually leads to medical inflation, and, the shift of burden based upon the way our health system is presently set up. Not sure if you've ever read it, but, I'd recommend 'Mama Might Be Better Off Dead' it helps explain this cycle and takes the wind out of the 'windfall' argument, especially in low-income urban neighborhoods.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mathguy View Post
Per your logic above, should we start sterilizing poor moms after they pop out their first couple kids? I mean they are grossly burdening the financial system.
No. My explanation of what another poster was alluding to regarding hospitals just billing all, regardless of source of pay, (not my logic), I would hope, highlights the importance of preventative care and public health interventions designed to stop problems before they start, or, at least lessen their severity. I don't claim to have all the answers.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mathguy View Post
I guess I'm wondering where all the social programming in this thread will end.
Will get back to you on that...

Last edited by MobileVisitor09; 09-17-2012 at 08:46 PM.. Reason: Fixed a quote!
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Old 09-17-2012, 08:49 PM
 
4,571 posts, read 4,368,352 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mathguy View Post
Um, there is a reason why my buddy from china took back a suitcase full of powdered milk the last time he was here.
After reading SobroGuy's informative post, I will try desperately to avoid any chinese toothpaste from now on...
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Old 09-17-2012, 10:04 PM
 
10,098 posts, read 17,898,609 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NooYowkur81 View Post
Did that actually happen to you? Not saying Red Lobster is amazing but I find it and the likes of Ruby Tuesday, Outback, to be some of the better chain sit-down restaurants.
Not me, but there was a group at a previous workplace who made it a regular thing to go to lunch at Red Lobster once a week... and at least one would get sick each time. Don't ask why they would keep going there, it's a mystery to me.
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Old 09-17-2012, 10:10 PM
 
10,098 posts, read 17,898,609 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MobileVisitor09 View Post
especially in reference to what we were discussing, the uninsured and how it taxes the system (literally and figuratively)--your smoker may die earlier than others saving some SS, but, if that uninsured smoker puts off treatment for years, and finally ends up in the ER, the hospital is legally forced to treat for the severe, comorbid conditions, (i.e., MI, emphysema, CVD), and those bills leading up their demise can be in the thousands. Especially if there's multiple ER visits prior to the end.
They only have to stabilize them, they don't have to treat. And are you counting those bills as the top line that hospitals actually claim to charge (which no one pays -- either you have insurance or you have clout or you can't afford to pay), or the actual amount that the hospital would have been paid had the patient had insurance (anywhere from 50-90% less)?
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Old 09-17-2012, 10:20 PM
 
Location: Baltimore, MD / NY
781 posts, read 1,125,798 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nybbler View Post
They only have to stabilize them, they don't have to treat. And are you counting those bills as the top line that hospitals actually claim to charge (which no one pays -- either you have insurance or you have clout or you can't afford to pay), or the actual amount that the hospital would have been paid had the patient had insurance (anywhere from 50-90% less)?
Sure, but when Mr. Smith comes in with a collapsed lung, for instance, stabilizing means treatment.

Regardless of what the bottom line figure is (when factoring in 'negotiated' amount or discount, and source of payment), in those scenarios, the services were still provided, and, it's still bad debt if left unpaid.
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Old 09-18-2012, 06:24 AM
 
1,142 posts, read 2,023,684 times
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I would be okay with a restriction on children, but not on adults. We pay taxes, work to fund our life, and ultimately should be in charge of our future. Yes it may cost more at some point to someone, but everything in life does that. Driving does that. Smoking does that. Drinking alcohol does that. Coffee does that. It's part of life, people get sick.

I don't want government institutions telling me what size I am allowed to have. If I want a 40 oz, then I should be able to get a 40oz. Yet again, this seems like a money grab. You have to purchase 2 instead of 1 = more money for businesses. And businesses that don't follow get fined = more money. It's not just about this issue, it's about any issue that takes away what we can do in our everyday life. As if the government actually does anything other then spend our money. Do you think the politicians will follow this rule or any rule that they champion?
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