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Kefir...keep in mind that something can be perfectly habitable but technically illegal, which is why so many people do it. Would you consider a basement apt which contains a 600 SF studio apt with 3 full size windows on 2 sides, 3 means of egress (1 directly to the yard, 1 to the internal hallway, and 1 to the private entrance under the stair case) illegal or dangerous? Of course not, but technically it is illegal because it is a unit not legally approved by the city. Which is why so many people convert these basements to apt.....many are perfectly fine but technically illegal.
What should not be a habitable apt is one where there is only 1 means of egress and/or only the small windows up high. Those are dangerous and should not be converted to apts.
How many dwelling places do you have in the building?
Do you live there?
This is the layout of the building. we purchased the right side of the building, consisting of 2nd floor apartment going in the front entrance, 3rd floor and 1st floor on the side entrance, and another to the basement from the back. When we went to building department they couldn't find the C.O online, and told us they needed to do research first. Now the left side of the building is exactly the same layout, and they were able to check the C.O (2 family).
so I guess 3 dwellings if basement doesn't count? and I don't live there.
FYI most of the older buildings in NYC, prior to 1930 I believe, typically do not have a COO, but that does not mean they are illegal apartments. I just purchased a 2 family property with no COO. All I have to do is apply for a COO, and the building inspector comes out to confirm it is in fact a 2 family by:
-Checking how many electric and gas meters there are. If it is a 2 family it should have a minimum of 2 meters for each.
-Judging whether the original layouts have been maintained. I.e. are there new partitions which do not appear original to the structure creating an illegal apt/subdivision?
If all appears OK based on the judgement of the inspector, you file the paperwork and get the COO..it's that simple. However if you are renting an illegal basement apt, you are creating headaches for yourself, and this tenant knows what he/she is doing. I would pursue the eviction and get them out even if it means they don't pay rent for a year. You should do whatever it takes to get them out regardless.
When they determine how many family for the CO. They mostly look at the required meters? anything else?
Aside from renting the illegal apartment and only focusing on the CO's, wouldn't the sale of the property be impeded if the CO's aren't filed before the closing? I'm just curious because I couldn't close until the CO was filed. Just wondering how the closing occurred for the OP if the CO's weren't filed. Unless CO's laws have changed over the past 10 years?
I'm sure the building has a CO. It's just not in the computer system. Now the weird thing is the adjacent building next to us has the same layout with 3 separate floor apartment, but the CO is for 2 family only. I'm just wondering why this could happen.
Kefir...keep in mind that something can be perfectly habitable but technically illegal, which is why so many people do it. Would you consider a basement apt which contains a 600 SF studio apt with 3 full size windows on 2 sides, 3 means of egress (1 directly to the yard, 1 to the internal hallway, and 1 to the private entrance under the stair case) illegal or dangerous? Of course not, but technically it is illegal because it is a unit not legally approved by the city. Which is why so many people convert these basements to apt.....many are perfectly fine but technically illegal.
What should not be a habitable apt is one where there is only 1 means of egress and/or only the small windows up high. Those are dangerous and should not be converted to apts.
On a practical level, I'd agree that a unit like that should be perfectly habitable. Unfortunately, only the city's opinion really matters, and they certainly don't work on any practical level.
I agree with Febtober.
I am sure that many basement apartments are fine...and the owners should get them qualified as legal before renting them or they will often pay dearly for not doing so. Like I said, I'm sure ignoring the rules can be lucrative so I don't shed tears for those who get screwed by savvy tenants...you roll your own dice. screw over a tenant and he might screw back.
Personal: I lived in a 32 family back when. I had a beautiful 1918 apartment, crown molding, bathrooms worthy of Queen Victoria, the works. Downstairs, behind the garbage room, behind the wall of meters, behind the huge 50 year old gargantuan boiler was a door to an unfinished basement space with a dozen mattresses on the floor and feces all over...the bugs and stench were not to be believed. There were wooden planks over leaking sewage.
This was once the best building in its part of the city.
So THAT'S why cities are concerned with illegal apartments.
Last edited by Kefir King; 10-25-2012 at 12:33 PM..
That is a perfect example of why you should not rent to someone who does not have evidence in their bank account of rent being paid. Ask for how much they currently pay in rent...and THEN ask for 2 recent bank statements...it will show that they are not paying rent. So this begs the question: Why not? It is likely they are hustling their current landlord, and you are next on their list!
update: It was settled for 6 month rent free. he moves out by Dec 31st.
calvin,
Glad you got it settled.
What are you plans for that "apartment?"
Of course maybe I shouldn't mention this but you could wind up with a continuing problem come Dec 31 if he DOESN'T move out.
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