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Old 10-16-2007, 07:44 AM
 
Location: Bronx, NY
1,526 posts, read 5,275,036 times
Reputation: 299

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Quote:
Originally Posted by ogplife View Post
I don't think that is the main problem. I would say people having more children than they could afford is a problem. If I was rich I would want like 10 kids. Why not.
Actually I think they are giving out condoms in the city--at least on college campuses and such. But you can thank all the right wing fundamentalists (and the admin that panders to them) for their "valiant" efforts to oppose Planned Parenthood, sex education, abortion rights, and access to free or low cost birth control. There are actually some pharmacists that have refused to dispense birth control because it goes against their religious beliefs. There's also quite a brouhaha about the morning after pill (not to be confused with the pill that can terminate a more viable foetus). They claim that these pills, which simply make it difficult for a sperm to fertilize an egg, are equivalent to abortion.

Hey, kids, do the same thing re: premarital sex that Nancy Reagan counseled about drugs...
just say no!

Of course, it's more complicated than that (what isn't?) There is a subculture that encourages this early parenting thing, and it's passed on from one generation to the next. But since the welfare system has been overhauled, it may not be as lucrative to pop out kid after kid, benefits wise, as it was before.

IMO the same problem can be found amongst all races and classes. How many middle class and affluent folks get married, have kids, and divorce? Gen X-ers were victims of this divorce epidemic from way back...and it is very traumatic indeed. Children are not some fashion accessory. They are an 18 year (or longer) commitment.
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Old 10-16-2007, 07:57 AM
 
Location: Bronx, NY
1,526 posts, read 5,275,036 times
Reputation: 299
As for public housing projects--see link below re: HUD selling off public housing to private developers:

Press Conference: HUD Selling Public Property to Private Developers | The Daily Gotham
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Old 10-16-2007, 10:22 AM
DAS
 
2,532 posts, read 6,271,988 times
Reputation: 1102
Quote:
As for public housing projects--see link below re: HUD selling off public housing to private developers:
I don't know all the details but some residents of PJ's in the Bronx and Manhattan have already received notices of their developements becoming low and middle income coops.
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Old 10-16-2007, 10:40 AM
 
Location: Atlantic Highlands NJ/Ponte Vedra FL/NYC
2,689 posts, read 3,298,420 times
Reputation: 328
Quote:
Originally Posted by DAS View Post
I don't know all the details but some residents of PJ's in the Bronx and Manhattan have already received notices of their developements becoming low and middle income coops.
you guys are confused, no NYCHA pjs have or will go private, what has gone private are the subsidises mitchell lama pjs like parkchester, sty town and peter cooper village among others.
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Old 10-16-2007, 11:17 AM
 
Location: Bronx, NY
1,526 posts, read 5,275,036 times
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No, we are not confused. I know very well the difference between mitchell lama and public housing pj's. Read the link provided above...that's why I posted it.
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Old 10-16-2007, 11:53 AM
 
358 posts, read 1,848,925 times
Reputation: 172
Quote:
Originally Posted by Elvira Black View Post
There IS a limit to how much housing you can build in this city. It's not all that big geographically, esp Manhattan, which also has a lot of commercial space. One of the reasons demand is so high is precisely because there is a limit to how much housing can be built here.
It's more of a limit on how high they're allowed to build.
Brooklyn for instance has about as many people as Paris, but is only half as dense.

Quote:
Section 8 is very hard to get onto, to put it mildly. It's a federally funded program (though each state handles the specifics), so do the math re: our current admin's priorities.
Funding is staying consistent, as is the number of vouchers awarded. A program cannot be 'harder to get into' as a whole if the same number of vouchers are being awarded. It's only "harder" now for people who have things like a criminal history, and "easier" now for law abiding Americans.

Quote:
Landlords can also opt out of the program as far as I know when they can command higher rents. I daresay that no landlord would welcome Section 8 tenants if they can renovate and get more in rent as a result. And apts don't have to be 100 percent section 8--in my b/f's building it is currently about one third of the tenants. That's the general idea behind section 8's--as a viable alternative to the segregated projects.
They have to be housed somewhere. They can play musical chairs all they want. The higher the rents go, the higher the payment standards will go, LOL and the Section 8 tenants will be able to afford them again. Much of this increased housing values may simply mean more landlords can afford to rehab their buildings enough to pass a Section 8 inspection, to be allowed to rent it out to Section 8 tenants.

Quote:
And I wouldn't count on public housing being intact indefinitely either. One change in the wind...the dept of homeless services is turning away people they claim can stay with friends and relatives. But guess what? If they stay in Section 8 apts with other residents, they can probably all get evicted for overcrowding. I'm also assuming there's wait lists for the public housing projects as well.
When public housing units are taken down, the families that were residing in them either get to move to another public housing unit, or recieve a housing voucher in replace of it.

If you think subsidized neighborhoods are easy to change, go check out the Tenderloin in San Francisco. Great location near downtown SF, surrounded by some of the most expensive areas of the city. A studio might cost around $1000 in the Tenderloin... but it's incredibly impoverished and crime ridden. Why? Subsidized housing.

With regards to birth rates... IIRC I just came across some stats the other day saying that NYCs birth rates, especially teen birth rates, were very low for a big city. IIRC the abortion rate is very high compared to much of the USA.
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Old 10-16-2007, 11:54 AM
 
Location: Atlantic Highlands NJ/Ponte Vedra FL/NYC
2,689 posts, read 3,298,420 times
Reputation: 328
Quote:
Originally Posted by Elvira Black View Post
No, we are not confused. I know very well the difference between mitchell lama and public housing pj's. Read the link provided above...that's why I posted it.

read slowly and try to comprehend the nuances, NO NYCHA pj has been or will be sold.
that is a very narrow and concise statement, it does not include HUD owned properties or properties taken over for nonpayment of taxes or fees. the project you mentioned is/was never a NYCHA project
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Old 10-16-2007, 12:57 PM
 
Location: Bronx, NY
1,526 posts, read 5,275,036 times
Reputation: 299
OK, to the last two posters, whatever you say. What makes you think that if Mitchell Lamas etc are being discontinued and bought up by billionaire developers that the PJ's are somehow going to be exempt from this?

Milliano, I disagree with much of what you posted, but will try to respond more later. I have to try to leave the apt for a little while.

apvbguy, whatever "narrow and concise" statement you wish to assert, that project was a public housing project of some sort. Semantics won't matter much to the displaced residents. And never say never...esp in this city.

This is not some sort of "contest" here anyway. The city's demographics are changing, and shifting very very rapidly. Money talks as never before, and that is a vast understatement. So whatever. You're both right and I'm wrong. Happy now? Either way I was born here, and will most likely die here, pj's or no pj's, etc etc.
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Old 10-16-2007, 01:10 PM
 
Location: Queens
842 posts, read 4,085,660 times
Reputation: 285
Quote:
Originally Posted by Elvira Black View Post
Actually I think they are giving out condoms in the city--at least on college campuses and such. But you can thank all the right wing fundamentalists (and the admin that panders to them) for their "valiant" efforts to oppose Planned Parenthood, sex education, abortion rights, and access to free or low cost birth control. There are actually some pharmacists that have refused to dispense birth control because it goes against their religious beliefs. There's also quite a brouhaha about the morning after pill (not to be confused with the pill that can terminate a more viable foetus). They claim that these pills, which simply make it difficult for a sperm to fertilize an egg, are equivalent to abortion.

Hey, kids, do the same thing re: premarital sex that Nancy Reagan counseled about drugs...
just say no!

Of course, it's more complicated than that (what isn't?) There is a subculture that encourages this early parenting thing, and it's passed on from one generation to the next. But since the welfare system has been overhauled, it may not be as lucrative to pop out kid after kid, benefits wise, as it was before.

IMO the same problem can be found amongst all races and classes. How many middle class and affluent folks get married, have kids, and divorce? Gen X-ers were victims of this divorce epidemic from way back...and it is very traumatic indeed. Children are not some fashion accessory. They are an 18 year (or longer) commitment.
Great post.
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Old 10-16-2007, 07:13 PM
 
Location: Confines of the 101 Precinct
25,267 posts, read 38,765,134 times
Reputation: 11063
Quote:
Originally Posted by Milliano View Post
How could developers possibly "overbuild" in a place like NYC? There is so much housing demand. The only ****ed up thing about zoning regulation are the NIMBYers who own the property, who make huge $$$ by keeping the lots underdeveloped in relation to the demand.
why do you even think the zoning resolution was enacted? so that certain buildings could only be built in certain areas. you have these 3-4 family houses sprouting up all over, stretching the infrastructure thats not equipped to handle it. ruining the neighborhood. if the city was out of apartments, there wouldnt be any in the classifieds. housing demand is created by a lack of money, so people are running around like a chicken with its neck cut off to find a place they can afford.
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