Welcome to City-Data.com Forum!
U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > New York > New York City
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
 
Old 12-04-2012, 10:53 AM
 
Location: where people are either too stupid to leave or too stuck to move
3,982 posts, read 6,675,828 times
Reputation: 3689

Advertisements

So the girls of the same race and economics are graduating ?

 
Old 12-04-2012, 12:16 PM
 
3,357 posts, read 4,618,948 times
Reputation: 1897
Family, community, schools, society are all factors. I've known some very close and loving latin carribean families, but with many bad role models. If you're a kid and your uncle is not supporting his 4 kids by 4 moms, your cousin is incarcerated, your mom had you at 16, and you often experience people engaging in disruptive behavior with little consequence, you'll be more likely to get involved with that as well. I don't think it means that mothers don't love their kids or care about their well-being, but they may not have the tools or maturity to get from here to there, or are so focused on day to day problems and making ends meet so that long term goals are more likely to be ignored. This is where the school and comminity should step in and help to support the family. But if the teachers have low expectations for you, your neighbors' families are dealing with similiar issues and the police treat you as a potential criminal, you'll be much less likely to succeed. If dropping out isn't uncommon in your family and social circle, you'll be much more likely to do it.

Children with families with similiar problems shouldn't be isolated in their schools and communities. Increased integration (economically/racially) should be a top priority, but it's hardly discussed. Affluent parents - even very liberal ones - prefer to isolate their kids - they don't want the solution to involve them so you just see article after article in the Times or similiar publications lamenting the situation, and everyone says "oh no, isn't that awful", and goes on their way.

Last edited by yodel; 12-04-2012 at 12:56 PM..
 
Old 12-04-2012, 12:32 PM
 
Location: Nassau, Long Island, NY
16,408 posts, read 33,240,130 times
Reputation: 7338
Default When I say trigger happy I mean trigger happy.

Originally Posted by I_Love_LI_but
The police on LI ... are quick to shoot first and ask questions later ...


Quote:
Originally Posted by bigjake54 View Post
You have no idea of what policing in the suburbs entails.
Neither do a lot of the actual police in the LI suburbs. What I wrote was an absolute fact. There have been too many killings by the police on LI recently. If you think I made it all up and have "no idea what I'm talking about" then explain away:

On Long Island, Fatal Shooting Is a Case of Mistaken Identity
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/14/ny...nted=all&_r=0\

Body count for above incident = 2 fatalities. A police officer (killed in mistaken identity by another police officer) and a stupid kid cornered and killed in his own home by the police even with his father begging them to spare his life.

Nassau Cop Shot, Suspect Dead, After Early Morning Incident In East Meadow
Police Officer Shot In The Leg In East Meadow, Suspect Killed After Struggle For Officer’s Gun « CBS New York

Body count for above incident = 1 injury, 1 fatality. The fatality was a guy the police decided "was suspicious" because he was sitting in his car in a parking lot outside a bar early in the morning.

Sources: Ex-Nassau cop likely killed ATF agent
Sources: Ex-Nassau cop likely killed ATF agent* - New York Daily News

Body count for above incident = 2 fatalities. One was a pharmacy robber. One was a federal agent trying to stop the robbery.

Relatives of Long Island man shot in confrontation with police file federal lawsuit
Relatives of Long Island man shot in confrontation with police file federal lawsuit - NYPOST.com

Body count for above incident = 1 fatality.

These are only a few of the shootings by police on LI. All these shootings in a low crime county. For those who care, all shooting victims were white. So, no, the theory that the suburban police on LI obey "white privilege" and whites are treated better is not true. Treating whites better does not entail shooting and killing them.

Moral of the story = Be very careful on LI when around the police.
 
Old 12-04-2012, 03:16 PM
 
8,572 posts, read 8,500,294 times
Reputation: 4684
Quote:
Originally Posted by Harlem resident View Post
The difference is that they are not claiming that "conspiracies" are preventing them from obtaining educations or preventing them from reading books.

It is a good comparison actually and could be very telling.

For some reason, people do not understand that all significant revolutions were begun by educated people.

You will admit that a semi-literate Italian kid has more options than the equivalent black kid. He can go to to Uncle Joe's and find a job. It was not that long ago that the mafia acted as an employment agency for poorly educated Italian kids...and I do not mean working for them. I mean all those corrupt contracts or union jobs.

Again I do not excuse people who get in the way of their own progress. But neither do I pretend as if they have the same opportunities as others.

And BTW there are many poor white men who are inventing a conspiracy theory. The notion that their poverty is due to minorities, immigrants, women and now gays. This as automation and outsourcing has reduced their opportunities.
 
Old 12-04-2012, 03:21 PM
 
8,572 posts, read 8,500,294 times
Reputation: 4684
Quote:
Originally Posted by likeminas View Post
This is very interesting.

South American Hispanics have college graduation rates that are higher than of the national average.

While Central Americans (including the biggest group of hispanics; Mexicans) and Caribbean Hispanics have below average graduation rates.

The non-surprising exception is Cubans, with graduation rates similar to that of South Americans.


South American Hispanics are a relatively small percetantage of all Hispanics, so no matter how well they do, the average will be brought down by the biggest groups.


btw; you mention Chile and Argentina, but I don't see any stats for them...
Why are you shocked that the kids of upper middle class Venezuelans, and Argentines, and lower middle class Colombians do better than kids from impoverished Dominican families? Indeed in Miami South American kids do BETTER than Cubans kids because migration from those countries is even MORE selective than it is from Cuba.

When people compare groups they must adjust for each group's characteristics.

Example. Nigerian immigrants are as educated than those from India, yet do no better than the considerably less educated migrants from the Anglophone Caribbean. It will be interesting to find out the reasons for this. It is certainly NOT due to family dysfunction.
 
Old 12-04-2012, 03:26 PM
 
8,572 posts, read 8,500,294 times
Reputation: 4684
Quote:
Originally Posted by likeminas View Post
If you were to measure the average schooling of South American countries and compare it to Central, and Caribean countries (except Cuba), you would still find that south american countries have a more educated population.
So while you are at it look at the high levels of illiteracy in Nigeria and Indian, compared to most parts of the Caribbean and come back and tell me that some innate characteristic of each nation, and not the composition of immigrant flows, accounts for the disparities.

Even if a Nigerian is doing a humble job in NYC, chances are that he was a teacher back home. So knows how to ensure that his kids utilize the educational system much better than some one who was a peasant farmer in the DR. He is also willing to undergo the sacrifice of having his kids forgo employment for college, even though the household might need the money that this might bring.
 
Old 12-04-2012, 03:47 PM
 
Location: West Harlem
6,885 posts, read 9,903,803 times
Reputation: 3062
Quote:
Originally Posted by caribny View Post

And BTW there are many poor white men who are inventing a conspiracy theory. The notion that their poverty is due to minorities, immigrants, women and now gays. This as automation and outsourcing has reduced their opportunities.
In fact that's true ! I was thinking about this.
The immigrant thing comes up from everyone.
The women and gay thing does seem to be specific to the white trash set.
 
Old 12-04-2012, 03:51 PM
 
Location: West Harlem
6,885 posts, read 9,903,803 times
Reputation: 3062
Quote:
Originally Posted by Motion View Post
This is why I think one long term solution to all of this is to reduce teen pregnancies. If more people in low income areas waited until their 20's before having their first kid we will see more mature people having kids which will benefit the children in the long run.
GREAT ! Could not agree more. This is actually the crux of things.

Now tell us how to do that without violating the terms of the constitution or enacting unethical legislation.
 
Old 12-04-2012, 03:56 PM
 
Location: West Harlem
6,885 posts, read 9,903,803 times
Reputation: 3062
Quote:
Originally Posted by caribny View Post

Example. Nigerian immigrants are as educated than those from India, yet do no better than the considerably less educated migrants from the Anglophone Caribbean. It will be interesting to find out the reasons for this. It is certainly NOT due to family dysfunction.
I think the Nigerian young people are actually smarter, based on my experience - once I thought about it. Which makes this interesting. Why are they failing to achieve accordingly.
 
Old 12-04-2012, 04:28 PM
 
8,572 posts, read 8,500,294 times
Reputation: 4684
Quote:
Originally Posted by Harlem resident View Post
I think the Nigerian young people are actually smarter, based on my experience - once I thought about it. Which makes this interesting. Why are they failing to achieve accordingly.

Nigerians do well in getting into college. Their income and occupational success AFTER colleges falls way behind Indians.

Is it race? Is it something else? They are very highly motivated people, maybe even more so than US born offsprings of Asian Indians.

This should be what we should be talking about.

Not babbling about why Nigerian kids, whose parents are mainly college educated, do better than AAs whose parentrs dropped out of high school. I think that this line of conversation is pursued by certain racists here as a way of pretending that there are NOT particular barriers faced by ALL categories of blacks. Whether educated, uneducated, foreign born, native, foreign parents, native parents.

Were I a Nigerian engineer, married to a Nigerian nurse, I would be insulted that folks think that the fact that my kids do better in school than those of a single US born black female, who dropped out of high school, is worthy of analysis. What will concern me is whether my kid has the same opportunities as other kids of other races. The answer appears to be NO.

Last edited by caribny; 12-04-2012 at 04:40 PM..
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Closed Thread



Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > New York > New York City

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 02:54 PM.

© 2005-2024, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top