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I can't comment on the birth of hip hop, but I can tell you that you're wrong about graffiti. It was not born in The Bronx; it was born in Washington Heights in early 1970.
In any event, the bottom line is that calling it art, or freedom of expression, or whatever else you want to say along those lines, is nothing more than a rationalization. When you deface somebody else's property, you're committing an act of vandalism. And to try and justify that as "culture" is nothing more than an excuse. Not even a good excuse, either.
As far as hip-hop it is one of the four elements along with Breaking, DJing and the MC.
I can't comment on the birth of hip hop, but I can tell you that you're wrong about graffiti. It was not born in The Bronx; it was born in Washington Heights in early 1970.
In any event, the bottom line is that calling it art, or freedom of expression, or whatever else you want to say along those lines, is nothing more than a rationalization. When you deface somebody else's property, you're committing an act of vandalism. And to try and justify that as "culture" is nothing more than an excuse. Not even a good excuse, either.
Yeah it is true what you say that Graffiti originated in Wash Heights.
Now I will talk about what Sobro said in the post that he was directing to me. Sobro seems like he is offended... Let us not feel offended in any way, because we all are from NYC. I will always support the people of NYC in any way I can, becaue that is where I am from. Yes I knew you were from the South Bronx, that is why I said that maybe you went to private schools that is why "maybe" you were not exposed to such things. I will have to disagree with the statement "Well Graffitti is a recent addition to NYC and not a part of its history." This is incorrect. Graffiti it is part of NYC. I read in Wikipedia that Graffiti is an element of Hip Hop. "Graffiti is one of the four main elements of hip hop culture (along with rapping, DJing, and break dancing)."
I totally disagree that people should spray paint on the properties on which you speak. There I cannot argue, because I know that that is true. Now getting back to the culture of the NYC. Graffiti indeed is a part of the culture of NYC. Now if you decide not to take part of that culture it is up to you. According to Wikipedia.org "The relationship between graffiti and hip hop culture arises both from early graffiti artists practicing other aspects of hip hop, and its being practiced in areas where other elements of hip hop were evolving as art forms. " My point that I am trying to prove here is that Hip Hop and graffiti is part of the culture of NYC. There are people who choses not to take part of it and some do.
Yes it exist the thing is NY Hip hop is underground right now. We got a lot of new NY rappers but they are not out there due to the South. The South has the throne now. However when Hip Hop reaches NY again. You will again listen to that good ol' NY Hip Hop=)
Quote:
Originally Posted by KRS88
Does Hip Hop even exist anymore in this age in time hip hop basically sounds like bad pop music.
While visiting in NYC last December, on a dreary, cloudy, misty day, I decided to take the subway north through the Bronx out of curiosity, and as much as I dislike graffitti, I must say, that particular day, the bright colors I saw on that trip added some welcomed color to my day.
One of the things I take notice of, when traveling, is graffitti. Which countries I have found the most, which countries I saw so little of. In Mexico, it's omnipresent. And most I've seen is plain ugly, no artistry whatsoever. Another country, which really surprised me, where I found so much of it was Chile, and again, with no artistry. Yet, unless I didn't get to the areas effected, I saw very little of it in Central America and the rest of South America. It always puzzles me as to why you see so much of it in one country and yet so little of it in a neighboring country.
Someone tried to explain to me that the reason I didn't see much of it in Central America is because they're too poor to buy the spray paint. What do you think? I don't agree.
While visiting in NYC last December, on a dreary, cloudy, misty day, I decided to take the subway north through the Bronx out of curiosity, and as much as I dislike graffitti, I must say, that particular day, the bright colors I saw on that trip added some welcomed color to my day.
One of the things I take notice of, when traveling, is graffitti. Which countries I have found the most, which countries I saw so little of. In Mexico, it's omnipresent. And most I've seen is plain ugly, no artistry whatsoever. Another country, which really surprised me, where I found so much of it was Chile, and again, with no artistry. Yet, unless I didn't get to the areas effected, I saw very little of it in Central America and the rest of South America. It always puzzles me as to why you see so much of it in one country and yet so little of it in a neighboring country.
Someone tried to explain to me that the reason I didn't see much of it in Central America is because they're too poor to buy the spray paint. What do you think? I don't agree.
It could be true who knows. In my opinion, I disagree because spray paint does not cost a lot.
NYC rican....I am not sure why you are quoting Wikipidea...it is not based on facts, it is just based on whatever the contributor decides to say. Please quote a real source. Your definition of culture is skewed....as skewed as saying the culture of crime is "us", or the culture of litter is "us" or the culture of drugs is "us". If you can qualify graffitti as the culture of "us" then you can qualify the crime/litter/drug culture as "us" as well. Do you? None of those are culture, they are in fact the product of being culture-less. And to repeat..Graffitti is NOT a part of NYC culture any more than murders, drugs, and pedophilia are...these are NOT Cultures...these are CRIMES. Just because you SEE graffitti, does not make it part of NYC history or culture....there is nothing historical or cultural about it no matter how hard you want to rationalize it. I have no problem with graffitti itself and it CAN be art, but if it were treated as art, it would be created by ARTISTS and not just anyone with a can of spray paint or marker who feels like defacing other people's property/public areas. See the difference?
NYC rican....I am not sure why you are quoting Wikipidea...it is not based on facts, it is just based on whatever the contributor decides to say. Please quote a real source. Your definition of culture is skewed....as skewed as saying the culture of crime is "us", or the culture of litter is "us" or the culture of drugs is "us". If you can qualify graffitti as the culture of "us" then you can qualify the crime/litter/drug culture as "us" as well. Do you? None of those are culture, they are in fact the product of being culture-less. And to repeat..Graffitti is NOT a part of NYC culture any more than murders, drugs, and pedophilia are...these are NOT Cultures...these are CRIMES. Just because you SEE graffitti, does not make it part of NYC history or culture....there is nothing historical or cultural about it no matter how hard you want to rationalize it. I have no problem with graffitti itself and it CAN be art, but if it were treated as art, it would be created by ARTISTS and not just anyone with a can of spray paint or marker who feels like defacing other people's property/public areas. See the difference?
Are you honestly saying graffiti is the same as murder.
Last edited by KRS88; 04-17-2009 at 09:36 AM..
Reason: Grammar
No...thats what NYC rican is saying...he is claiming the act of defacing public and private property is somehow a part of "us" and NYC culture. That "culture" is also the culture that led to the burning down of half of the South Bronx..so I guess arson is part of "us" too.....as well as the violent crime and crime "culture" that is part of NYC and "us." You cannot claim one to be a NYC "culture" and representative of "us" without the other. So which is it? They are all a product of the NYC "culture" of the 70s....right?
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