Do you think this will ever happen to the poor people of nyc? (purchase, taxi)

[NyWriterdude]

Well, some people like to bash the rich. But put it like this, I have never been hired by anyone poorer than me.

I understand hilltopjay on what he said about the producers.

Take Bank of America. If the large banks went under, not only would that wipe out a lot of commerce (no new credit cards, mortgages, business loans, etc.) many companies maintain their payroll accounts (among other accounts) at big banks. So if the bank does under, you don't get a paycheck, because that's where your employer had THEIR money for payroll expenses.

Ditto for the agribusiness companies. They do the farming, the food processing, and the transportation to the retail stores.

The utilities supply us with services we need, electric, gas, internet, etc. When these companies have to make major investments to their networks to upgrade services, yes, they do get tax credits. But it benefits consumers.

When wireless companies upgrade their cell networks, yes, they get tax credits. But they provide a service the public LOVES to use, since people run out and by cell phones all the time.

Now, I'm not saying companies shouldn't pay taxes, and maybe there have been those who too aggressively pushed for tax cuts. But at the same time, we all have benefitted from this.

[NyWriterdude]

Originally Posted by likeminas

I didn't say they poor should get a tax break. Go back and re-read what I wrote if you didn't understand it the first time.
The very poor cannot afford to pay income taxes for obvious reasons. But even then they pay taxes in the form of sales tax, payroll tax, etc... of course, people never remember those.

Even people on welfare or homeless people pay sales taxes, good point. So we're all tax payers. The lowest income working people still pay social security, medicare, and unemployment taxes. You don't get refunds for those.

And taxes are often incorporated into the price of things. Do you rent a room or apartment? Indirectly, you're paying your landlords real estate tax.

Wasn't it founding father Benjamin Franklin said two things in life are certain, death and taxes? LOL

[Forest_Hills_Daddy]

Businesses come and go in America all the time. Banks are no different. To suggest that we cannot afford to lose them or their bankruptcy would wipe out commerce is totally preposterous. There are enough healthy banks in the US economy to keep money moving around even if BOFA and Citi were to shut down. Payroll is nothing. It is merely a transaction that employers can divert to other banks if there is a problem. Other banks can issue cards, business loans etc. None are sacred cows.

[NyWriterdude]

Originally Posted by Forest_Hills_Daddy

Businesses come and go in America all the time. Banks are no different. To suggest that we cannot afford to lose them or their bankruptcy would wipe out commerce is totally preposterous. There are enough healthy banks in the US economy to keep money moving around even if BOFA and Citi were to shut down. Payroll is nothing. It is merely a transaction that employers can divert to other banks if there is a problem. Other banks can issue cards, business loans etc. None are sacred cows.

Or not. If BOFA and City went under, they'd be a massive collapse of banking stocks. Banks, like other companies,borrow money in the bond markets.

Who would want to buy bonds sold by banks if we had BOFA or Citi collapse? These banks also lend considerable amounts of money to other banks, so with that void in the system, you'd not have any liquidity, except people trying to sell and bail out.

Everything is done with finance and banking. Retailers like WalMart have investment bankers sell their corporate paper (short term bonds) for when they need to finance day to day operations. The banks get paid back when retailers make a lot of money (back to school, Christmas, etc.)

Only certain banks hold certain functions. Institutional investors deal with primarily Bank of America or City, not with the smaller banks. 401k are in the stock market and are administered by banks (investment banks). Pension funds and other institutional investors deal with the Goldman's, BOFA, and Citi. Mainstream America has nothing to replace these banks if they go under, which is why they got bailed out.

Even the fact a company is able to afford to pay their employees is sometimes because the company borrowed money from banks or bondholders (using assets as collatoral), which they intend to pay back when sales improve.

[Forest_Hills_Daddy]

/\/\

That's completely absurd. WalMart has more than $7 billion of cash on average in its balance sheet and generates more than $20 billion in cash from operations. It does not need to issue commercial paper to support its day to day operations. And almost all companies, pension funds and banks spread their exposure to financial counterparties precisely to prevent that scenario. Wal-Mart for example has around seven banks in its syndicate so a collapse of Citi and BOFA will not cut off its funding and the same is true for most companies in the US. Likewise, institutional investors have many other options aside from the BOFAs and Citis. Do you seriously think Fidelity or T. Rowe Price are stupid enough to deal with only one or 2 banks for short term financing?

401Ks and trusts are not administered by banks but by asset managers, some of whom could be owned by banks. But even the ones managed by Citi and Goldman will simply be transferred to other asset managers if they collapse. That's the mechanism that was used to transfer the assets affiliated with Lehman Brothers so it's already been tested and we know it works. The liabilities of troubled banks are non recourse to the investment funds they administer.

If you look at the critical services that banks provide to businesses today (there are only a few that are really critical), there are already many mechanisms in place to protect these services from failure and these have already been tested long ago. I can't believe there are people who actually believe that doomsday story and would profess it to be true in a public forum.

[annerk]

Originally Posted by likeminas

I didn't say they poor should get a tax break. Go back and re-read what I wrote if you didn't understand it the first time.
The very poor cannot afford to pay income taxes for obvious reasons. But even then they pay taxes in the form of sales tax, payroll tax, etc... of course, people never remember those.

Most don't work, so no payroll taxes. The majority of their expenditures goes towards food which is tax free. I'm taking an educated guess that a person actually earning $12K a year pays under $1000 a year in all taxes. If they have kids they are getting far more than that back in an EIC and other entitlements, so they are not paying taxes.

My point was mainly about the fact that there are lot of petty people out there screaming 'foul' because a poor family receives a tax credit of a couple of grands, but they're blissfully unaware that some of the biggest corporations in this country paid NO income tax AND still got BILLIONS of tax payer money in refunds from the IRS.
Where are all these little petty people demanding an end to the corporate welfare ?

I have said several times that the system is broken. Corporations need to start paying their fair share--even the large corporate farmers. It will raise prices for consumer goods at the start, but it will eventually level out. The ONLY group that I want to still see getting various tax credits is the TRUE family farmer. Not the large institutional farm, but the family farmer with a hundred head of cattle and 30 acres of corn and beans.

Again, bashing the poor makes some people feel better about themselves.
Some of these useful idiots, do it because they have deluded themselves into believing that one day, they might be part of the 1%.

The joke is on them...

I'm bashing everyone who isn't carrying their own weight regardless of who they are, and the broken government we have that is completely wasteful. Again, I want a flat tax on all, benefits only for those who are truly incapable of earning their keep, and a complete overhaul of government spending, particularly of entitlement programs, military spending, and transit spending.

[hilltopjay]

A flat tax for all would be a great idea. Theres no discrimination on income levels and its a good motivator to push people to earn more in order to retain more. But of course the socialist on this board would disagree with this.

[SeventhFloor]

Originally Posted by hilltopjay

A flat tax for all would be a great idea. Theres no discrimination on income levels and its a good motivator to push people to earn more in order to retain more. But of course the socialist on this board would disagree with this.

A terrible idea. Even the goverment would disagree with you. The saying is, "you pay to play." So if you're a producer, you have more responsibility. You make more, you pay more.

[SeventhFloor]

Originally Posted by annerk

and a complete overhaul of government spending, particularly of entitlement programs, military spending, and transit spending.

We're in agreement here.

[annerk]

Originally Posted by todd00

I'd like to see what you would buy for 200 a month. Give us a healthy months menu.

I'm not going to take the time to do an entire month, but I'll do a week and you can take it from there.

This would be menus for the three adults in my household for a week. I'd start with looking to see what coupons are available and what is on sale, planning a menu around that. I do not run around to every store in town. I primarily shop Publix and BJ's. I use coupons, but generally just the store ones as I don't get the newspaper. The biggest key is to take advantage of sales when planning a menu and keep track of what goes on sale when. I know that pasta and canned tomatoes/sauce both go BOGO every 4-6 weeks. Same thing with cheese and olive oil. I buy flour, sugar, rice, and tea in bulk a couple times a year. I make almost everything from scratch, I buy very, very little processed food.

Sunday:

Breakfast: Home made pancakes made with buttermilk I got on sale for $.75. Add in the other ingredients (flour, egg, baking powder, sugar--runs about $1 for three servings), butter (used a store coupon at BJ's and it works out to $.50/stick, we used about half a stick so $.25), and syrup (bought on sale BOGO, I'll call it $1, was actually less) and they cost about $4 for three people. We get free oranges off a neighbors tree, so fresh squeezed OJ went with them. When oranges aren't in season we have tea or apple juice.

Lunch was homemade empanadas. I used a little over half a pound of beef--$2 because I only buy 93% lean, you could do it for under $1 with chuck or pork. Can of tomato sauce $.89, 1/2 onion ($.50, the rest went into the pizza sauce later), assorted seasonings, and Goya Discos (I have tried but can't make them as good as Goya's and probably only a penny or two less per) which cost about $.17 each, so $.50 for three. With the assorted spices it worked out to about $4 for three people.

Home made pizza. Dough ingredients are flour, salt, water, olive oil, and yeast. Total cost is about $.50 for two 14" pies. On top of that I put home made pizza sauce which is two cans of tomato sauce and one can of tomato paste. The sauce is $.89/can but I got it BOGO at Publix a couple weeks ago. The paste is $.35/can with a printable coupon. The cheese is the budget killer. I applied a coupon to a BOGO and got it for about $3 for a package. I used 2/3 of the package, so about $2. I topped it with thinly sliced Roma tomato which I got on sale for $.99/lb and it was about a half pound, so $.50. Two of us also had a simple salad made with Romaine, some leftover carrots, and a balsamic vinagrette ($1 for two servings) It totaled $5.25, we had about 1/2 of one of the pies leftover, so under $5 for dinner for three.

So Sunday's food budget was $13 for three adults.

Monday

Breakfast will be oatmeal with either raisins, blueberry's, or brown sugar depending on personal taste. $.50 per serving, plus coffee/tea/apple juice, so $1 per adult, $3 total. (I buy the blueberrys in a frozen bag and take out a tablespoon or so of them, oatmeal is bought in bulk at BJ's.)

Lunch will depend on the person. I'll have a salad with Romaine (I buy it for about $1 a stalk and that makes 3-4 salads), some chick peas, and some dried red peppers I got for 50% off a few weeks back, total cost will be about $1. I expect the others will have either salad or PB&J, so bottom line $3 for lunch for three.

Publix has boneless pork loin on sale for $1.70/lb. A three pound loin will be dinner with leftovers for another meal. $2.55 for the meat. I'll make sweet potatoes and some broccoli to go with it, $3 for the sides once you add in the butter and brown sugar for the sweet potatoes. Dinner for three adults, $5.50.

Monday's food budget is $12.

Tuesday

Scrambled eggs with 1/2 can of Ro-Tel. Eggs are $.14/each at BJ's, I'll use nine. The Ro-Tel was BOGO so about $.40. Three slices of buttered toast, $.60 (that's probably high). Coffee/tea/apple juice. Total cost for breakfast is under $3.

Lunch will depend on the person. I'll have a salad with Romaine (I buy it for about $1 a stalk and that makes 3-4 salads), some chick peas, and some dried red peppers I got for 50% off a few weeks back, total cost will be about $1. I expect the others will have either salad or PB&J, so bottom line $3 for lunch for three.

I bought a just under three pound boneless NY strip roast on sale for $5.99/lb a couple months ago and froze it. I'll make that and we'll have half for dinner and the rest will be another meal. I'll roast about a pound of red potatoes ($.75) and add some frozen broccoli ($1 BOGO package). I'll make some sort of dessert, I bake from scratch, so it will run $4 or so for a chocolate cake that will last three meals. Cost for this meal is a budget breaking $12.

Tuesdays food budget is $18

Wednesday

Breakfast will be oatmeal with either raisins, blueberry's, or brown sugar depending on personal taste. $.50 per serving, plus coffee/tea/apple juice, so $1 per adult, $3 total.

Lunch will depend on the person. I'll have a salad with Romaine (I buy it for about $1 a stalk and that makes 3-4 salads), some chick peas, and some dried red peppers I got for 50% off a few weeks back, total cost will be about $1. I expect the others will have either salad or PB&J, so bottom line $3 for lunch for three.

Dinner will be ham bone soup made with a leftover ham bone. Onion ($.50), can of tomatoes ($1), Package of frozen veggies ($1), potatoes $1, pasta $.50, tomato sauce ($.89). This will make enough for two meals for $5. I'll make biscuits with the leftover buttermilk, $1--probably less actually. $6. Leftover chocolate cake.

Wednesday meal cost $9 for three adults.

Thursday

Scrambled eggs with 1/2 can of Ro-Tel. Eggs are $.14/each at BJ's, I'll use nine. The Ro-Tel was BOGO so about $.40. Three slices of buttered toast, $.60 (that's probably high). Coffee/tea/apple juice. Total cost for breakfast is under $3.

Lunch will depend on the person. I'll have a salad with Romaine (I buy it for about $1 a stalk and that makes 3-4 salads), some chick peas, and some dried red peppers I got for 50% off a few weeks back, total cost will be about $1. I expect the others will have either salad or PB&J, so bottom line $3 for lunch for three.

Dinner: Grilled chicken (1.5 lbs at $2.99/lb so $4.50 for the meat, $.50 for the ingredients for a marinade.) I'll make some steamed rice and broccoli, $1.50. Total cost, $6.50. Leftover cake for dessert.

Total cost for Thursday $12.50

Friday

Breakfast will be oatmeal with either raisins, blueberry's, or brown sugar depending on personal taste. $.50 per serving, plus coffee/tea/apple juice, so $1 per adult, $3 total.

Lunch will depend on the person. I'll have a salad with Romaine (I buy it for about $1 a stalk and that makes 3-4 salads), some chick peas, and some dried red peppers I got for 50% off a few weeks back, total cost will be about $1. I expect the others will have either salad or PB&J, so bottom line $3 for lunch for three.

Dinner is the leftover pork from earlier in the week with more sweet potatoes and some broccoli to go with it, $3 for the sides once you add in the butter and brown sugar for the sweet potatoes. Dinner for three adults, $5.50.

Total cost for Friday is $11.50

Saturday

Scrambled eggs with 1/2 can of Ro-Tel. Eggs are $.14/each at BJ's, I'll use nine. The Ro-Tel was BOGO so about $.40. I'll make some cinnamon muffins from scratch, they cost me about $1.50 to make because of the butter. Coffee/tea/apple juice. Total cost for breakfast is under $4.

Lunch will depend on the person. I'll have a salad with Romaine (I buy it for about $1 a stalk and that makes 3-4 salads), some chick peas, and some dried red peppers I got for 50% off a few weeks back, total cost will be about $1. I expect the others will have either salad or PB&J, so bottom line $3 for lunch for three.

Dinner will be the leftover soup and fresh baked peasant bread. Soup price already figured into the weeks food budget, bread $1.

Saturday meal cost for three adults, $8.

Total cost for the week, $84 for three adults. No one will go hungry and there is minimal "junk." If you want to add in snacks, add whatever fresh fruit is on sale (right now clementines will work out to about $.30 each) and make some homemade hummus and pita chips--about $5 for enough for three hearty snacks/light lunches for three. You can also add in things like hard boiled egg, feta cheese, or flax seed to the salads. So $100 for three adults for a week if you want some snacks or additional items in the salads.

One other thing to suggest, plant a couple of tomato plants. You'll get about 20 tomatoes off each plant. They'll grow in a tight space on a small balcony or even indoors in a sunny spot. Use old paint buckets, or pots for a garage sale. The ROI is really good and they are really easy to grow.