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So what is the reality then when trying to rent an apt? Well I don't rent to welfare programs, which are 99.9% people of color in NYC at this rent level...so in theory I could be classified as "racist." If you are a single mom with kids, I also won't rent to you...and they are typically 99% people of color in NYC at this rent level...so in theory I could be classified as "racist" again.
If you cannot string a coherent sentence together without any of the following words: *****/aight/baby-mama or baby-daddy/*uck/$hit/etc, or cannot match nouns + pronouns (i.e. "We be" instead of "We are"), I will not rent to you. However 99.9% of the people who speak this way are people of color in NYC at this rent level, so I could be classified as "racist."
Interestingly, I thought earlier but did not comment, such regulations and investigations often end up hurting smaller people with sound motivations while basically failing to catch anybody who might actually be doing something wrong.
This is some tendency specific to our own time. In my opinion it is increasing. I see this at the level of university management (of students and faculty) as well. Increasing micro-management along with increasing corruption.
This is an interesting thread, however I feel the article leaves alot of important information out in order for us to understand what is really happening.
I am a small time LL in a "transitioning" neighborhood in NYC (Mott Haven/Southern Bronx)..I rent 2 bedrooms for $1,400...so let me share my perspective in this debate. When I have an apt for rent, I typically get a tidal wave of welfare cases seeking to rent from me...i.e. Section 8 moms with kids..some working, some not. I also get various homeless program participants as well. I would say the ratio is 90% welfare cases and 10% working people responding to my vacancies. It is not representative of NYC as a whole, but the programs pay enough to cover these rents so you get alot of interest from them.
So what is the reality then when trying to rent an apt? Well I don't rent to welfare programs, which are 99.9% people of color in NYC at this rent level...so in theory I could be classified as "racist." If you are a single mom with kids, I also won't rent to you...and they are typically 99% people of color in NYC at this rent level...so in theory I could be classified as "racist" again.
If you cannot string a coherent sentence together without any of the following words: *****/aight/baby-mama or baby-daddy/*uck/$hit/etc, or cannot match nouns + pronouns (i.e. "We be" instead of "We are"), I will not rent to you. However 99.9% of the people who speak this way are people of color in NYC at this rent level, so I could be classified as "racist."
If you are not dressed properly, do not present yourself professionally, ultimately I will not rent you an apt..and people of color are almost always excluded as a result...so I could be classified as "racist." But really, is anything I am doing "racist"? The answer is NO..what I am doing is being selective and trying to get the best tenant possible, regardless of race...but the indirect impact is a heavy exclusion of people of color. Is that my fault or a product of the people responding/market? I say the latter.
It is also true that LLs will offer a lower rent to get better tenants, and I do that as well. I would rather have a stellar tenant who pays less, than a so-so tenant or someone I am not 100% pleased with who pays more. Does that make me a racist if the better tenants are consistently "white"? See the problem here?
It's a complicated issue, but IMO we cannot deny that we live in a wolrd where white = good/desireable, and black/brown = undesirable. So if you have neighborhoods that are "transitioning", it would not be a surprise that owners/managers are more aggressively luring "white" tenants, and trying to lessen the blacks/browns. I personally target a class, not a race, and I am proud of the diversity of my tenants...unfortunately too many people only care about the green, which equals "white" tenants.
Someone posted a subsequent article regarding what happened.
The blacks were turned away instantly or told the apartments were way more than what they were.
The attorneys that sued the landlord sent in "TESTERS" of equal looks and I'm sure everyone spoke english properly. Three testers of blacks and three testers of whites. The whites were all told they were "choice" people and even given discounts on their rents, while the blacks were told there were no vacancies.
How do you explain this?
Racist or not?
ETA: Just wanted to say I loved your responses in the FDNY thread. Applause!!
The assumption is that all things were equal among the testers, so all things being equal the logical conclusion based on this article is that some racism was involved. I suspect this simpleton/ignoramos should not be the gatekeeper of the building...management should do a better job of having professionals represent their building.
The point of my comment was that I do things that someone can claim are "racist"..but the reality is they are not. If you had a better understanding of the rental market (people) in NYC, and all the rules/regulations in evicting a tenant, you too would be very selective and ultimately can be called "racist" as well.
This is an interesting thread, however I feel the article leaves alot of important information out in order for us to understand what is really happening.
I am a small time LL in a "transitioning" neighborhood in NYC (Mott Haven/Southern Bronx)..I rent 2 bedrooms for $1,400...so let me share my perspective in this debate. When I have an apt for rent, I typically get a tidal wave of welfare cases seeking to rent from me...i.e. Section 8 moms with kids..some working, some not. I also get various homeless program participants as well. I would say the ratio is 90% welfare cases and 10% working people responding to my vacancies. It is not representative of NYC as a whole, but the programs pay enough to cover these rents so you get alot of interest from them.
It is also true that LLs will offer a lower rent to get better tenants, and I do that as well. I would rather have a stellar tenant who pays less, than a so-so tenant or someone I am not 100% pleased with who pays more. Does that make me a racist if the better tenants are consistently "white"? See the problem here?
It's a complicated issue, but IMO we cannot deny that we live in a wolrd where white = good/desireable, and black/brown = undesirable. So if you have neighborhoods that are "transitioning", it would not be a surprise that owners/managers are more aggressively luring "white" tenants, and trying to lessen the blacks/browns. I personally target a class, not a race, and I am proud of the diversity of my tenants...unfortunately too many people only care about the green, which equals "white" tenants.
$1400 in rent is not 99% of the "people of color" in NYC. There are plenty of blacks and hispanics who work in civil service and hospitals, and yes, many of them do make that much money.
The Bronx was historically considered to be a ghetto, so when people are on welfare programs they tend to target the Bronx, because it was known for taking such people. I know that's changed, as I had credit checks and income verification done on me as I was moving to the Bronx.
Ditto for professional clothes and professional demeanor. There are many people of color who wear professional clothes. You may not see them applying to your building ,but that's because you're getting lots of welfare cases because of your location.
A friend of mine was rejected for apartments in Bed Stuy multiple times in favor of whites. A Virginia native, she is a schoolteacher with two masters degrees.
There was a mention about Blacks in Greenpoint. I went to JHS 126 in the early 80s. To my knowledge, outside of Cooper Houses, there has never been a large African-American population in Greenpoint. That neighborhood has mostly been Polish.
I'm sure if the broker knows which landlords are racist, then he or she has saved you sometime as you won't be directed to those apartments. You two may have to save up for a broker.
You are basically telling them to just accept the racism. Why should they have to pay $2,000 that a white couple wouldn't have to pay? This is why we have these laws.
NYWriter Dude: I am not making a statement on income, I am making a statement on the people who are likeliest to respond to my posting, in Mott Haven, at that price point for a 2 bedroom.
Secondly, the Bronx was historically considered working class, NOT a ghetto.
And these are reasons why I don't respond to your comments, and will be the last time I do so. You don't know what you are talking about, have no basis for your comments, and babble nonstop. Now go and write something instead of wasting everyone's time here.
ETA: Just wanted to say I loved your responses in the FDNY thread. Applause!!
Dude could not/cannot answer or counter any of the multiple questions or facts that I threw at him. He either completely ignored them or repeated the same emotional rhetoric over and over and over again. The responses you like was indeed, that rhetoric.
Dude could not/cannot answer or counter any of the multiple questions or facts that I threw at him. He either completely ignored them or repeated the same emotional rhetoric over and over and over again. The responses you like was indeed, that rhetoric.
Yay...
Hmmmm, didn't you say you were going to "quit" this thread?
Hmmmm, didn't you say you were going to "quit" this thread?
I said that once and already didn't follow through with it yesterday. What's it to ya?
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