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Old 10-18-2007, 12:37 AM
 
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With this new big change in the schools system of bonuses for teacher perfomance, do you think there is actually a bright future for our public schools in the city? So what do you think about this. Does it take more than teacher perfomance? Will they still become better in the long run? I really hope there is some positive change in the school system.


Teachers Agree to Bonus Pay Tied to Scores



October 18, 2007

The Bloomberg administration and the New York City teachers’ union announced an agreement yesterday on a plan that would give teachers bonuses based largely on the overall test scores of students at schools that have high concentrations of poor children.

The plan, negotiated for months, is a major breakthrough for Mayor Michael R. Bloomberg, who for years has advocated extra pay to reward high-performing teachers.

Moderator cut: copyrighted material

Copyright 2007 The New York Times Company[/quote]

Last edited by Keeper; 12-07-2007 at 10:28 AM..
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Old 10-18-2007, 05:16 AM
 
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Hopefully, but I think not. 1) This will now lead teachers to do more "teaching the test".This type of teaching creates specialized children and take away the creativity that is natural to them. This helps them through school, but hurts them in the long run. 2)New York City schools need to improve their administration more than the teachers. You wouldn't dare see a high school child in the Fredericksburg area (where I am currently living)skip class, better yet school altogether. There is a famous statement any NYC student will here in Middle school "when you get to high school they don't care about what you do. You are on your own". They don't play around with that type of stuff and they are on top of it daily. Disrespect? Not having that either, there is no one child that will be allowed to disrupt any class for too long. They use a lot of early intervention. 3) Parents. 50% just dont care or do care and are inefficient. The other 50% has to work too hard (usually 2 jobs) to make ends meet and can't keep up with their childs school performance. Remember the days when kids went to school to refine what your parents taught you in elementary and middle school? 4) Sports) Basketball is not the only sport on this planet! You need multitude of sports on the middle school level to keep these kids off the streets and give them incentives to complete their work. You also want kids to develop a passion for these sports before high school when it is usually too late. 5) The class sizes are too high. The population whether documented or undocumented (immigration) is growing by the second, but what new schools are they building. You can never have too many schools and you would be hard pressed to find a taxpayer who will openly complain about schools being built. With all of this being said it is always a banner day when teacher compensation is increased so dont construe this as negativity. I was just answering the question. I am sure others will differ.

Last edited by Keeper; 12-07-2007 at 10:29 AM..
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Old 10-18-2007, 08:33 AM
DAS
 
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Other towns will educate their young people for the towns future good, because they depend on them to stay in the town or surrounding area.

NYC can lure talent in all areas, from all over the world so there is not that need to educate the young people with same enthusiam as other towns.

If the parents are rich they don't worry about public schools.
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Old 10-18-2007, 10:44 AM
 
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No.

Why?

It goes beyond the school system. It has a lot to do with the upbringing of the child and his or her mentality towards school. Although NYC has among the worst schools in America, this problem is not isolated.
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Old 10-18-2007, 11:48 AM
 
Location: New York
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Some of the finest schools in the city are PUBLIC schools. Schools that have the worst reputations come from communities where the parents are not engaged in their children's education. If you live in a good neighborhood, that won't be much of an issue.

Furthermore, public schools offer many extra curriculars that private schools cannot afford to offer.

Don't believe the hype. It is a fallacy that NYC schools are bad. Some are bad, some are good. Some are GREAT. Remember, there are over 1500 public schools in NYC. They aren't all the same.

Read the reports. Insideschools.org - New York City public school guide, reviews, statistics, and forums is one source.

GOOD LUCK.
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Old 10-18-2007, 12:21 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by roseba View Post
Some of the finest schools in the city are PUBLIC schools. Schools that have the worst reputations come from communities where the parents are not engaged in their children's education. If you live in a good neighborhood, that won't be much of an issue.

Furthermore, public schools offer many extra curriculars that private schools cannot afford to offer.

Don't believe the hype. It is a fallacy that NYC schools are bad. Some are bad, some are good. Some are GREAT. Remember, there are over 1500 public schools in NYC. They aren't all the same.

Read the reports. Insideschools.org - New York City public school guide, reviews, statistics, and forums is one source.

GOOD LUCK.
It is true that some schools in NYC are better then others, the same goes for anywhere else. However NYC has many more problematic schools then other cities.

The problem with that link is it's reviewer opinion. You can find decent schools in the worst schools distrcts. Be it Detroit, NYC, Miami, ect. However that is not the reality for most students.

Graduation rates are a great factual indicator of who makes it and who doesn't. A kid could do great in 1st or 5th grade, but when he or she hits high school and drops out, that kid just threw everything away.

Like I said before, the problems are deeper then the board of education (although they have their problems). It has to do with the families, upbringing and mentality towards school.

NYC is not alone and I do not see this problem improving anytime soon. These kids deal with way to many issues especially considering the fact many of todays children in NYC live in poverty or close to it.
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Old 10-18-2007, 03:12 PM
 
Location: Concrete jungle where dreams are made of.
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I agree with Hustla. The board of ed can only do so much; it's mostly up to the families who are raising these children. Us teachers can only do so much. There's only so much a kid can learn in school; half of their learning comes from home. The kids who have great parents who sit down with them and do their homework everyday are the ones who understand everything so much more and are going to get ahead. That's a given. I have so many parents giving me excuses as to why they're late to bring their kids to school and why they didn't do homework. Kids tell me they keep asking their parents at home and their parents tell them they're too busy to help. Parents tell me they're bringing their kids late because they overslept (seriously, invest in an alarm. I also have to mention that these kids live no more than 3 blocks from the school. Give me a break).

So like i said, it all comes down to parent making a good effort at home.
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Old 10-18-2007, 08:14 PM
 
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No the public school system will not improve in NYC because NYC doesn't place education high on its list of priorities. NYC attracts people from all over the world. Why hire someone with a public school education and even public state or city college education when the Ivy Leagues, and college students from other state college systems (which are a lot better might I add) are all cramming for a job in the Big Apple?

I went to some of the best public schools here in NYC, which are (were) rated really high, one was a specialized school, the other a magnet school that was combined with another school and so essentially doesn't exist anymore in its original structure. And yet, I did not have the benefits or programs that my own parents had in their public school education. My mother learned two instruments in school (violin and clarinet) and my grandparents scraped up the money to pay for piano lessons and so she learned to read and write music as well as play 3 instruments--two from public school. What did I learn in public school regarding music? Nothing. Well, not including the two years of school chorus before the program was cut and the teacher was ousted due to lack of funding. Not including the deficient teachers, lack of school programming and funding.

The bottom line is that the money is there. We spend 25K on each student in NYC. Where does it go? You would have to ask the administration. (And yes that number is a fact!). You can look at the millions we waste on construction and renovations of buildings that are still and will remain unsuitable for students to learn in.

We can blame parents but that isn't fair. There are many,many families who are interested in their children, come to parent teacher conferences and school meetings. They are often mistreated, dismissed and talked down to. The stereotypes of the poor and working class are that if you don't have the money to pay for private school, are that you must not be interested. That because you lack money you aren't a good parent, and you are definitely not interested in your children's future. Because if you really did care, you would scrape up the money for your child to go to private or parochial school.

And I saw all of this first hand. I have also learned and spoken with some premiere educators in NYC who tried to garner programs to bridge the gap between school officials and teachers and parents. And who do you think shut the program down? Despite the fact that parents and families were willing partners and interested and showed up! You guessed it, our lovely board of education!

Lastly we can blame the students. We can blame them for teachers who do not know their subject, can only teach an exam and who are afraid of them by the time they are in the 5th grade (the very teachers who loved them in the first grade, mind you). We can blame them for our low expectations of them and their future. We can blame them because we never taught them study skills, we passed them every year with social promotion even though they cannot read or write at their grade level. And yes, we can say that a few bad apples spoil the bunch and lump them all together, because they, the children are at fault for their lack of education, ambition and the lack of belief in them.

Yes, we can blame them all.

And while there may be a few good schools in the system, those schools are usually in the more monied areas of the city. And it still boils down to money and politics. There are many public schools that are often supplemented by corporate sponsors or their upper middle class parents (and grandparents) who will fund raise and donate money specifically to that school so that their children will have a better education. Lastly, when we teach the test and give bonuses to the teachers who get their students to perform the best, they are often uprooted from their schools and sent to one of the corporate/family sponsored schools. This happened to my elementary school teacher who had a reputation and history for getting her students to score the highest in our school district. One day he was gone and we learned later that he was sent to another public school downtown to one of those corporate/family sponsored schools.

That is the real deal about public school education in NYC. Don't kid yourselves.
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Old 10-18-2007, 11:14 PM
 
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I just want to add that I do know that there are many good teachers in the public school system, however the system overall is not working and hasn't been working for a very long time. And I just think it's unfair to blame parents and children for that.
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Old 10-18-2007, 11:17 PM
 
Location: Queens
842 posts, read 4,173,653 times
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^Some parents are to blame. Some of the schools are to blame. There's many reasons as to why a child can fail. It just depends on the circumstances
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