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I would suggest streeteasy.com instead of Trulia. Streeteasy has more listings, you can break it down to parts of neighborhoods, and the site lists monthly maintenance fees in addition to price. Trulia usually doesn't have the monthly maintenance fees. Streeteasy is free, too, like Trulia.
I actually look at both of them and would suggest the same to anyone looking---use anything available. I find, at least in the areas I look in, that the maintenance on Trulia is usually listed in the description. I like that StreetEasy lists many of the units in the same building on one page if you want.
Quote:
Originally Posted by on-wheels
Thanks for the tips guys.
You are right, my budget for this at most should be 250k. I saw quite a few listing at this price range on trulia. I wonder if they're legit.
In any case, I will start doing some legwork on the areas you guys mentioned. It doesn't hurt to go see a few apts.
One of my main concerns is that we might eventually outgrowth a 2br apt if we decide to have another child. I hear some many stories of people regretting the purchase of a co-op due to the many restrictions of the board.
Oh this is complicated. I, for one, would like to stop paying rent and finally get our own place, but I'm nervous to make the jump.
Your first consideration should be how much are you paying for rent now versus how much you are willing or can pay for a mortgage + maintenance. My mortgage for my co-op is less than my maintenance so remember that maintenance isn't cheap.
If you actually find a place you like for 250K, 50K (20%) would be your d/p and your monthly payment with a 3.625% interest rate would be around $912.10. Add maintenance to that (let's say $750 for a two bedroom which can be considered low in some places) you're looking at $1662/month. If that's okay for you or cheaper than your rent, then that's great. If not, then I would start aggressively saving money for what you want.
I would not jump into a co-op if you think you're going to want to move out sooner than later. It might take a long time and it might be an arduous process not only to get into a co-op but to sell it and get out of one. Are you going to stick around for less than five years definitely? If that's the case, then I wouldn't do it. Don't forget about flip taxes that might be involved.
How restrictive your co-op will be varies greatly from co-op to co-op. That you may or may not be able to find out ahead of time.
Well, you can always take a trip to Riverdale. I can understand the stereotypes that the mere mention of the borough engenders, but there are some very nice neighborhoods that don't feel as though they are part of the city. Riverdale does have properties with price tags that range into eight-digit territory, so it's pretty varied, and could even be described as a bit sleepy, since many places close before ten. Just have your wife commute via Metro-North and she won't know she's in the Bronx. Kew Gardens is another good consideration in Queens, I agree.
The key with a co-op is to find a friendly building and friendly board, which really may not be an issue when looking for a family apartment. You are looking within your means, so financial qualification should not be an issue, so shop the co-op first and the apartment second, as in find the best financial situation. Remember, a co-op is more about controlling your costs with respect to housing, which is why appreciation is less than a condo, in most cases, but financially vetting members does help to keep the building/complex stable, more-so than some condos that can have price spikes/dips based upon the market.
__________________
All the world's a stage, and all the men and women merely players: they have their exits and their entrances; and one man in his time plays many parts, his acts being seven ages.
~William Shakespeare (As You Like It Act II, Scene VII)
Parkchester is the only spot in the city where you could find 2BR condos under 200K. However, that commute from the Bronx to Downtown Brooklyn could be problematic, if you are not used to 1 hours and 15 minutes door to door!
Suburbs may get you a more inexpensive price, but property taxes, commuting fees and longer commutes may hit you. One or more trade offs may be necessary. Good luck.
I think Riverdale might be a little too far for them, considering how much of hassle it would be to get to Brooklyn from there. Kew Gardens and Forest hills are much better options. E/F to Court Sq, and then an easy transfer to the G. 40 minutes max to Downtown Brooklyn.
Honestly, school is overrated. Just make sure your kid can pass the SAT and presto you can get into NYU with 2100 or any top 30 school. Many high schools don't prep students for SATs yet colleges weigh it more than anything else. Ironic no?
There needs to be a 'staring blinking in disbelief' smiley!
Thanks for the tips guys.
You are right, my budget for this at most should be 250k. I saw quite a few listing at this price range on trulia. I wonder if they're legit.
In any case, I will start doing some legwork on the areas you guys mentioned. It doesn't hurt to go see a few apts.
One of my main concerns is that we might eventually outgrowth a 2br apt if we decide to have another child. I hear some many stories of people regretting the purchase of a co-op due to the many restrictions of the board.
Oh this is complicated. I, for one, would like to stop paying rent and finally get our own place, but I'm nervous to make the jump.
Ok, first thing, SLOW DOWN! It is rather apparent that you are NOT prepared. You need to do a GREAT deal more homework, and *where* to buy is the last item on the research list.
1) what do you know of the advantages/disadvantages of Coops/Condos?
2) what do you know of coop/condo *financials*? Are you capable of judging the financial *health* of coops/condos? Buying into a *broke* building w/b a huge mistake. Do you know what an "Assessment" is? Will you be capable financially, if you are hit witth an Assessment shortly after purchasing, say within the first 2 years?
3) are you aware of the varying cost of maintenance fees from building to building. Focusing *just* on price is a mistake. You MUST also consider the 'carrying costs' (maintenance/condo fees)
For example, you could find an apt with a seemingly affordable *price*, but a wholly unaffordable carrying cost; or, you can find the reverse, high price, low fees (likely a more financially stable building).
High fees for a relatively average building is a red flag!
Therre are a LOT of considerations when shopping for an apartment. Specifically, when shopping on a 'shoestring' budget. Remember you WILL have to be APPROVED by the coop board. This can be an onerous and invading process. With *marginal* finances, you are likely to be strictly scrutinized (at least by well run and attractive coops). Many, the best, WILL reject those with marginal finances. The standards can be far more strict than the most demanding LL!
You need to look into the 'approval process' and determine wether you are, indeed, ready and *willing* for the the scrutiny. I know of many who resent the invasion of privacy demanded by coop boards.
Another point of decision, you must decide wether to buy into a building which allows owners to *rentJ their apartments; or, one which disallows renting. If they allow renting, then you must guard against buildings with HIGH renter/owner ratios.
Banks will not lend, nor offer buyers mortgages, there is a high renter proportion. Many Banks will not lend to buildings/buyrs of building which allow renters. (It is a matter of stability and vested interest.) So, more to consider.
Also, the ability to rent can be important for those who, in the future, may need/want to move into a new home, but cannot or just are not selling immediately. Without renting, you'd be forced to carry the coop costs, in addition to the costs of you (new* home. So, a little forward thinking is necessary.
There is LOTS more, but I'll Move on. Just do your homework!
*****
Since you work Downtown, I strongly suggest you focus on Brookly! The main reason is commute time. Public Transport, specifically the subway system, is designed to bring commuters from the outer boroughs into Manhattan. It is not designed for outer borought to outer borough transport.
Consequently, such commutes tend to be extra-ordinary in time and effort. For example, when I lived in Park Slope and visited my GF in Astoria, the "N" train took 90 minutes on average, longer late nights.
From any of the suggested Queens areas, you'll likely need to switch subway lines at some point. The N and the F lines can get you into Downtown w/o switching. In any event, it will most certainly be a 60 minute PLUS commute.
In all commuting scenarios (save LIRR), you'll need to travel Queens (20 to 30 minutes) then midtown to Brooklyn (30 to 45 minutes), so on average door to door 90 minutes.
The LIRR commute from Queens to Atlantic Avenue will be COSTLY, and you'd have to be very mindful of train schedules and frequency, which is dependant upon the specific LIRR line, AND your stop on that line. LIRR service is *not* equal on all lines, nor all stops!! Then, of course, the few subway stops from Atlantic to "downtown". If lucky with the schedule and you can absorb the cost, the LIRR *might* shave 30 minutes, perhaps more of commute time. One caveate, the LIRR are ALWAYS shifting schedules!!
Note, the farther into Queens, the cheaper, but also the longer the commute. It alos opens the possiblity of commuting by car, presuming there is affordable parking near the job.
****
In Brooklyn, considering your finances, ALL the trendy areas are outside your budget. I suggest you look along the Ocean Parkway corridor (all the way to Coney Island); the Kings Highway corridor (Flatbush Ave to Ocean Parkway); Ocean Avenue corridor (Newkirk Ave to Shore Parkway); Nostrand Avenue corridor (Kings Highway to Shore Parkway). Also, Ditmas Park and Midwood.
Ok, first thing, SLOW DOWN! It is rather apparent that you are NOT prepared. You need to do a GREAT deal more homework, and *where* to buy is the last item on the research list.
1) what do you know of the advantages/disadvantages of Coops/Condos?
2) what do you know of coop/condo *financials*? Are you capable of judging the financial *health* of coops/condos? Buying into a *broke* building w/b a huge mistake. Do you know what an "Assessment" is? Will you be capable financially, if you are hit witth an Assessment shortly after purchasing, say within the first 2 years?
3) are you aware of the varying cost of maintenance fees from building to building. Focusing *just* on price is a mistake. You MUST also consider the 'carrying costs' (maintenance/condo fees)
For example, you could find an apt with a seemingly affordable *price*, but a wholly unaffordable carrying cost; or, you can find the reverse, high price, low fees (likely a more financially stable building).
High fees for a relatively average building is a red flag!
Therre are a LOT of considerations when shopping for an apartment. Specifically, when shopping on a 'shoestring' budget. Remember you WILL have to be APPROVED by the coop board. This can be an onerous and invading process. With *marginal* finances, you are likely to be strictly scrutinized (at least by well run and attractive coops). Many, the best, WILL reject those with marginal finances. The standards can be far more strict than the most demanding LL!
You need to look into the 'approval process' and determine wether you are, indeed, ready and *willing* for the the scrutiny. I know of many who resent the invasion of privacy demanded by coop boards.
Another point of decision, you must decide wether to buy into a building which allows owners to *rentJ their apartments; or, one which disallows renting. If they allow renting, then you must guard against buildings with HIGH renter/owner ratios.
Banks will not lend, nor offer buyers mortgages, there is a high renter proportion. Many Banks will not lend to buildings/buyrs of building which allow renters. (It is a matter of stability and vested interest.) So, more to consider.
Also, the ability to rent can be important for those who, in the future, may need/want to move into a new home, but cannot or just are not selling immediately. Without renting, you'd be forced to carry the coop costs, in addition to the costs of you (new* home. So, a little forward thinking is necessary.
There is LOTS more, but I'll Move on. Just do your homework!
*****
Since you work Downtown, I strongly suggest you focus on Brookly! The main reason is commute time. Public Transport, specifically the subway system, is designed to bring commuters from the outer boroughs into Manhattan. It is not designed for outer borought to outer borough transport.
Consequently, such commutes tend to be extra-ordinary in time and effort. For example, when I lived in Park Slope and visited my GF in Astoria, the "N" train took 90 minutes on average, longer late nights.
From any of the suggested Queens areas, you'll likely need to switch subway lines at some point. The N and the F lines can get you into Downtown w/o switching. In any event, it will most certainly be a 60 minute PLUS commute.
In all commuting scenarios (save LIRR), you'll need to travel Queens (20 to 30 minutes) then midtown to Brooklyn (30 to 45 minutes), so on average door to door 90 minutes.
The LIRR commute from Queens to Atlantic Avenue will be COSTLY, and you'd have to be very mindful of train schedules and frequency, which is dependant upon the specific LIRR line, AND your stop on that line. LIRR service is *not* equal on all lines, nor all stops!! Then, of course, the few subway stops from Atlantic to "downtown". If lucky with the schedule and you can absorb the cost, the LIRR *might* shave 30 minutes, perhaps more of commute time. One caveate, the LIRR are ALWAYS shifting schedules!!
Note, the farther into Queens, the cheaper, but also the longer the commute. It alos opens the possiblity of commuting by car, presuming there is affordable parking near the job.
****
In Brooklyn, considering your finances, ALL the trendy areas are outside your budget. I suggest you look along the Ocean Parkway corridor (all the way to Coney Island); the Kings Highway corridor (Flatbush Ave to Ocean Parkway); Ocean Avenue corridor (Newkirk Ave to Shore Parkway); Nostrand Avenue corridor (Kings Highway to Shore Parkway). Also, Ditmas Park and Midwood.
You have some good advice, however, there are a few points I'd like to make.
1. Regardless of the disadvantages/advantages of co-ops vs condos, condo's are out of the OP's' price range unless the Op can come up with a bigger downpayment. Co-op's are really their only option.
2. Location matters a lot more than you make it out to be. You can find the perfect Co-op but if you don't like the location, it's best to just keep looking rather than settle down. Buying is a big investment, so you have to be happy with everything. Thats why the OP SHOULD check out the areas mentioned on here, and then look for the "perfect" co-op.
3. His wife works in Midtown. Getting to Midtown from Brooklyn can be a chore, especially considering how slow the Brooklyn/manhattan crossings are. It's a lot closer and faster to midtown from Queens, and it's not hard to get to Downtown Brooklyn from Queens. The E/F run express, and the transfer from Court St. to G is easy. There will be more neighborhoods available in the OP's price range in Queens then in Brooklyn, so don't rule out Queens for the OP.
In the end, the OP should first find which neighborhoods he likes best in his price range, and then go about finding a good Co-Op.
I've seen condos/ houses in my area lose 30% of their value. 50K is more than enough for a down payment on a condo/house. If you are willing to take out a home equity loan, you can increase your options. You just need to look hard enough.
Ok, first thing, SLOW DOWN! It is rather apparent that you are NOT prepared. You need to do a GREAT deal more homework, and *where* to buy is the last item on the research list.
1) what do you know of the advantages/disadvantages of Coops/Condos?
2) what do you know of coop/condo *financials*? Are you capable of judging the financial *health* of coops/condos? Buying into a *broke* building w/b a huge mistake. Do you know what an "Assessment" is? Will you be capable financially, if you are hit witth an Assessment shortly after purchasing, say within the first 2 years?
3) are you aware of the varying cost of maintenance fees from building to building. Focusing *just* on price is a mistake. You MUST also consider the 'carrying costs' (maintenance/condo fees)
For example, you could find an apt with a seemingly affordable *price*, but a wholly unaffordable carrying cost; or, you can find the reverse, high price, low fees (likely a more financially stable building).
High fees for a relatively average building is a red flag!
Therre are a LOT of considerations when shopping for an apartment. Specifically, when shopping on a 'shoestring' budget. Remember you WILL have to be APPROVED by the coop board. This can be an onerous and invading process. With *marginal* finances, you are likely to be strictly scrutinized (at least by well run and attractive coops). Many, the best, WILL reject those with marginal finances. The standards can be far more strict than the most demanding LL!
You need to look into the 'approval process' and determine wether you are, indeed, ready and *willing* for the the scrutiny. I know of many who resent the invasion of privacy demanded by coop boards.
Another point of decision, you must decide wether to buy into a building which allows owners to *rentJ their apartments; or, one which disallows renting. If they allow renting, then you must guard against buildings with HIGH renter/owner ratios.
Banks will not lend, nor offer buyers mortgages, there is a high renter proportion. Many Banks will not lend to buildings/buyrs of building which allow renters. (It is a matter of stability and vested interest.) So, more to consider.
Also, the ability to rent can be important for those who, in the future, may need/want to move into a new home, but cannot or just are not selling immediately. Without renting, you'd be forced to carry the coop costs, in addition to the costs of you (new* home. So, a little forward thinking is necessary.
There is LOTS more, but I'll Move on. Just do your homework!
*****
Since you work Downtown, I strongly suggest you focus on Brookly! The main reason is commute time. Public Transport, specifically the subway system, is designed to bring commuters from the outer boroughs into Manhattan. It is not designed for outer borought to outer borough transport.
Consequently, such commutes tend to be extra-ordinary in time and effort. For example, when I lived in Park Slope and visited my GF in Astoria, the "N" train took 90 minutes on average, longer late nights.
From any of the suggested Queens areas, you'll likely need to switch subway lines at some point. The N and the F lines can get you into Downtown w/o switching. In any event, it will most certainly be a 60 minute PLUS commute.
In all commuting scenarios (save LIRR), you'll need to travel Queens (20 to 30 minutes) then midtown to Brooklyn (30 to 45 minutes), so on average door to door 90 minutes.
The LIRR commute from Queens to Atlantic Avenue will be COSTLY, and you'd have to be very mindful of train schedules and frequency, which is dependant upon the specific LIRR line, AND your stop on that line. LIRR service is *not* equal on all lines, nor all stops!! Then, of course, the few subway stops from Atlantic to "downtown". If lucky with the schedule and you can absorb the cost, the LIRR *might* shave 30 minutes, perhaps more of commute time. One caveate, the LIRR are ALWAYS shifting schedules!!
Note, the farther into Queens, the cheaper, but also the longer the commute. It alos opens the possiblity of commuting by car, presuming there is affordable parking near the job.
****
In Brooklyn, considering your finances, ALL the trendy areas are outside your budget. I suggest you look along the Ocean Parkway corridor (all the way to Coney Island); the Kings Highway corridor (Flatbush Ave to Ocean Parkway); Ocean Avenue corridor (Newkirk Ave to Shore Parkway); Nostrand Avenue corridor (Kings Highway to Shore Parkway). Also, Ditmas Park and Midwood.
Thank you JColtrane for taking the time to write such a detailed and informative post.
This is gold.
Quote:
Originally Posted by city living
I actually look at both of them and would suggest the same to anyone looking---use anything available. I find, at least in the areas I look in, that the maintenance on Trulia is usually listed in the description. I like that StreetEasy lists many of the units in the same building on one page if you want.
Your first consideration should be how much are you paying for rent now versus how much you are willing or can pay for a mortgage + maintenance. My mortgage for my co-op is less than my maintenance so remember that maintenance isn't cheap.
If you actually find a place you like for 250K, 50K (20%) would be your d/p and your monthly payment with a 3.625% interest rate would be around $912.10. Add maintenance to that (let's say $750 for a two bedroom which can be considered low in some places) you're looking at $1662/month. If that's okay for you or cheaper than your rent, then that's great. If not, then I would start aggressively saving money for what you want.
I would not jump into a co-op if you think you're going to want to move out sooner than later. It might take a long time and it might be an arduous process not only to get into a co-op but to sell it and get out of one. Are you going to stick around for less than five years definitely? If that's the case, then I wouldn't do it. Don't forget about flip taxes that might be involved.
How restrictive your co-op will be varies greatly from co-op to co-op. That you may or may not be able to find out ahead of time.
My rent right now is $1,500 for a 1 1/2 br in Long Island city. The land lady already said she'd like to raise it soon, due to us having a newborn at home.
The way, I see it, rent can only go one way. And that is; UP.
The same could be said about co-op mantenience, but if our monthly housing expenses go also toward some equitity that builds over over, I think it might be better to own vs renting over the long run.
I think a monthly housing expense of $1,800-1,900 is what we can afford without being struggling or poor home-owners. Like I said on a previous post, our salaries are likely to go up, but I prefer not to count on that for this purpose.
Not sure if $1,800-1,900 is a realistic monthly housing expense to own a 2br. What do you think ?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Astorian31
You have some good advice, however, there are a few points I'd like to make.
1. Regardless of the disadvantages/advantages of co-ops vs condos, condo's are out of the OP's' price range unless the Op can come up with a bigger downpayment. Co-op's are really their only option.
2. Location matters a lot more than you make it out to be. You can find the perfect Co-op but if you don't like the location, it's best to just keep looking rather than settle down. Buying is a big investment, so you have to be happy with everything. Thats why the OP SHOULD check out the areas mentioned on here, and then look for the "perfect" co-op.
3. His wife works in Midtown. Getting to Midtown from Brooklyn can be a chore, especially considering how slow the Brooklyn/manhattan crossings are. It's a lot closer and faster to midtown from Queens, and it's not hard to get to Downtown Brooklyn from Queens. The E/F run express, and the transfer from Court St. to G is easy. There will be more neighborhoods available in the OP's price range in Queens then in Brooklyn, so don't rule out Queens for the OP.
In the end, the OP should first find which neighborhoods he likes best in his price range, and then go about finding a good Co-Op.
What Queens neighborhoods would you recommend in addition to the ones already listed?
I like Astoria/LIC a lot but I think we've been priced out from those neighborhoods.
Long island was another consideration, but my wife doesn't like it out there so much. I know picky wife, but I tell her beggars cannot be chosers, lol. Taxes and commuting costs are a big minus, but better schools out there somewhat make up for that.
No wonder people take a long time to make this kind of purchases, there's a lot of factors to consider.
Last edited by on-wheels; 01-16-2013 at 09:49 AM..
Suburban co-ops may be a bit riskier than those within the city, simply because of the higher commuting costs, taxes, need for vehicles, etc. that may not exist if you live in a walkable city neighborhood that has convenient transportation to Manhattan, the need for one or even no car (depending upon lifestyle), and lower property taxes.
If you were looking at Bronxville, for example, which I know you would not because of the Brooklyn commute, but a top-tier school district on LI, then it might be a better bet to take the risk on a co-op because of the schools. However, it may not make it easier to divest, should you wish to move to another house in the suburbs after a few years. And, co-op restrictions on rentals can make it very difficult to be able to use it as investment property as well, though that depends upon a given co-op.
Pick up a copy of Sylvia Shapiro's Co-Op Bible at Barnes and Noble, or from Amazon. It is an excellent primer on purchasing a co-op.
__________________
All the world's a stage, and all the men and women merely players: they have their exits and their entrances; and one man in his time plays many parts, his acts being seven ages.
~William Shakespeare (As You Like It Act II, Scene VII)
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Kew Gardens is another good consideration in Queens, I agree. 
