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Old 01-24-2013, 05:47 PM
 
Location: Putnam County, NY
593 posts, read 2,081,787 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by geoking66 View Post
I think it's more that 1) the South Bronx was until recently just that bad and 2) the South Bronx is more uniform in safety (or crime for that matter) than Brooklyn, if that makes any sense. So while East New York and Brownsville are the worst, Brooklyn is patchier safety-wise.
I think a lot of street criminals are drawn to Brooklyn by all the wealthy people who have moved there the past 10 years....
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Old 01-24-2013, 07:53 PM
 
594 posts, read 1,630,891 times
Reputation: 332
It's kind of hard to compare NYC murder statistics to the rest of the country due to the way the statistics are gathered, from what I understand. Somebody on here (I think it was Anon1) explained it to me once that the way it works now is that if there's a gang shootout or something and 4 people die, it used to be considered 4 separate homicides, whereas now it's considered "1 incident", so it counts as 1 and not 4.

I don't know if that's really how it works or not, but it sure would bring the averages down and make certain places look safer on paper than they really are.
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Old 01-24-2013, 08:11 PM
 
Location: Ridgewood, NY
3,025 posts, read 6,792,499 times
Reputation: 1601
Quote:
Originally Posted by RC1981 View Post
It's kind of hard to compare NYC murder statistics to the rest of the country due to the way the statistics are gathered, from what I understand. Somebody on here (I think it was Anon1) explained it to me once that the way it works now is that if there's a gang shootout or something and 4 people die, it used to be considered 4 separate homicides, whereas now it's considered "1 incident", so it counts as 1 and not 4.

I don't know if that's really how it works or not, but it sure would bring the averages down and make certain places look safer on paper than they really are.
Please don't misquote me... I do remember the conversation but while I do not remember what I said exactly, I know it wasn't that... That being said, I do feel that the way they gauge crime statistics across the board whether in the Bronx, Brooklyn, Manhattan, etc. is a little off... This cite has become super sensitive in recent months though so out of fear of starting another pointless debate about compstat i'll just leave it at that...
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Old 01-24-2013, 10:46 PM
 
Location: Central Jersey
71 posts, read 152,404 times
Reputation: 44
Quote:
Originally Posted by nykiddo718718 View Post
The Bronx has gone through significant gentrification and urban renewal. Many working people have moved into new or renovated apartments in the borough's most blighted neighborhoods. Places that were once only home to the poorest of the poor. There is a lot more income diversity, even in the South Bronx.

The Bronx has and is still mostly improving. NYC in general is has been going through a renaissance.

However, on the flipside I will mention that violent crime has only become even more concentrated in certsin areas, among certain demographics.
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Old 01-24-2013, 10:59 PM
 
1,682 posts, read 3,160,249 times
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Gentrification is occuring in the Bronx. Why is this so hard to understand. Some members of this board really under estimate the change in certain districts. When you have professionals moving into communities with many times the average income, that's gentrification. There is plenty of private development in the South Bronx. New businesses included too.

As for crime, citywide, even borough wide stats are useless. Who cares about a borough wide stats if say you live in the Mott Haven Houses which see well above average rates of violent crime. The stats in Riverdale don't mean $ hit to those people. The reality is there are a lot more disparities among certain demographics. More decent places to live, but the same problems in certain communities. The Bronx overall has improved though, good for the Bronx.
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Old 01-25-2013, 05:01 AM
 
Location: Concourse
579 posts, read 942,924 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jcoltrane View Post
Gentrification? Significant? The Bronx? WHERE?!

To have "gentfication", you need GENTRY! No "gentry", no gentrification.

Not to mention the fact that Gentrification and Urban Renewal are POLAR OPPOSITES!!

Urban Renewal, by definition, is government intervention into the market. Government designed, government financed, and normally follows some idiotic architectural *theory*.

Urban Renewal is foisted upon the people from on high. Think Robert Moses.

Gentrification, by definition, and action, is a 'grass roots' *organic* effort by PRIVATE individuals.

Gentrification emanates from and is financed by those who benefit from it. Think all those Transplants moving into Harlem, privately financing purchase and renovation, without benefit of government loans or guarantees; and, the asthetic is of an organic rather than *designed* nature.

The two are politically juxtaposed.

Gentrification normally succeeds in transformation. Urban Renewal, generally, fails in its grandiose ambition of transformation.

Gentrification is Capitalism at work. Urban Renewal is Socialism!
Not sure I agree with your premise or pehaps I'm missing your point. I moved to the Bronx and I am a gay white professional. In my new neighborhood I see people like me walking around and getting off the train from Manhattan. I would say that I am "gentrifying" my new neighborhood based on your definition.

I read the newspapers and several recent articles in the NY Times (all of which have been posted on this blog) have described changes that are occurring and have occured in several Bronx neighborhoods that would meet your definitions of both gentrification and urban renewal.

Do you disagree with the position that Bronx neighborhoods are improving or just with the description of the improvement as gentrification vs. urban renewal?
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Old 01-25-2013, 05:11 AM
 
1,682 posts, read 3,160,249 times
Reputation: 729
^-I want to add that urban renewal policies have lead to Bronx gentrification. See the zoning changes in Melrose and Port Morris or the landmark district of the lower Grand Concourse and the historic townhouses of Mott Haven. The rise in higher income earners in say Melrose has changed the face of the neighborhood. The area was once dirt poor, now you see more professionals like teachers, firefighters, even doctors then ever before. It's gentrification.

I love this image:

Credit: Wired NY/Gulcrapk
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Old 01-25-2013, 06:10 AM
 
Location: Helsinki, Finland
5,452 posts, read 11,222,383 times
Reputation: 2411
Quote:
Originally Posted by jcoltrane View Post
Gentrification? Significant? The Bronx? WHERE?!

To have "gentfication", you need GENTRY! No "gentry", no gentrification.

Not to mention the fact that Gentrification and Urban Renewal are POLAR OPPOSITES!!

Urban Renewal, by definition, is government intervention into the market. Government designed, government financed, and normally follows some idiotic architectural *theory*.

Urban Renewal is foisted upon the people from on high. Think Robert Moses.

Gentrification, by definition, and action, is a 'grass roots' *organic* effort by PRIVATE individuals.

Gentrification emanates from and is financed by those who benefit from it. Think all those Transplants moving into Harlem, privately financing purchase and renovation, without benefit of government loans or guarantees; and, the asthetic is of an organic rather than *designed* nature.

The two are politically juxtaposed.

Gentrification normally succeeds in transformation. Urban Renewal, generally, fails in its grandiose ambition of transformation.

Gentrification is Capitalism at work. Urban Renewal is Socialism!
Then by your definition for example South Bronx is not undergoing gentrification but urban renewal because almost all of the new housing are governmentally assisted developments.
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Old 01-25-2013, 06:27 AM
 
Location: Beautiful Pelham Parkway,The Bronx
9,241 posts, read 24,008,257 times
Reputation: 7748
Quote:
Originally Posted by whitlock View Post
Then by your definition for example South Bronx is not undergoing gentrification but urban renewal because almost all of the new housing are governmentally assisted developments.
Forget the South Bronx.Most of the housing developments( maybe all) built in anywhere in NYC are governmentally assisted in one way or another, including giant tax abatements given to multi million dollar Manhattan condos.Many multi millionaires like Derek Jeter are getting these kinds of government subsidies.

Buyers at new luxury apartment building One57 could get big, long-term tax breaks thanks to controversial 421a plan - NYPOST.com

http://cooperator.com/articles/1378/...ons/Page1.html

"The beneficiaries of the 421-a program aren’t always the lower- and middle-income families intended by the original lawmakers, however. According to a recent article in the New York Post following an investigation of city tax records, designer Calvin Klein gets a $134,450 annual tax break on his Richard Meier-built Perry Street penthouse. Yankee shortstop Derek Jeter saves $130,000 a year on his $4 million Trump World Tower apartment, and actress Natalie Portman saves $26,300 annually on her $5.8 million condo."
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Old 01-25-2013, 06:42 AM
 
Location: Concourse
579 posts, read 942,924 times
Reputation: 377
Quote:
Originally Posted by bluedog2 View Post
Forget the South Bronx.Most of the housing developments( maybe all) built in anywhere in NYC are governmentally assisted in one way or another, including giant tax abatements given to multi million dollar Manhattan condos.Many multi millionaires like Derek Jeter are getting these kinds of government subsidies.

Buyers at new luxury apartment building One57 could get big, long-term tax breaks thanks to controversial 421a plan - NYPOST.com

Taxing Questions

"The beneficiaries of the 421-a program aren’t always the lower- and middle-income families intended by the original lawmakers, however. According to a recent article in the New York Post following an investigation of city tax records, designer Calvin Klein gets a $134,450 annual tax break on his Richard Meier-built Perry Street penthouse. Yankee shortstop Derek Jeter saves $130,000 a year on his $4 million Trump World Tower apartment, and actress Natalie Portman saves $26,300 annually on her $5.8 million condo."
Excellent point. Based on the OP above, is this "urban renewal" as well?
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