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Old 01-31-2013, 03:27 PM
 
10 posts, read 15,059 times
Reputation: 10

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Hi,

Our tenants' lease ended on 30 Nov 2012. On 11 January 2013, they gave notice that they were vacating and would be out by the 10 February. When I indicated that they would need to pay rent to cover February, they returned with their intent to vacate on 31 January and anticipated the return of the security deposit as soon as possible.

It's my understanding, that when they went to a month-to-month (after the lease expired), NYS Housing Laws took over and they are required to give 30 days notice (for NYC). Also, as I'm out-of-state, I will not be able to inspect the apartment, to check for damages that I believe they didn't have repaired (they only indicated cleaning), until mid-February.

Are they due the return of the deposit? I don't think they are, as at least part of it can be retained to account for unpaid rent - which would be February, and part for potential damage - which I need to check for. They also haven't surrendered the keys.

I would like to respond to them in a timely manner, but also want to make sure the information I have is correct.

Can anyone help clarify this for me?
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Old 01-31-2013, 03:42 PM
 
510 posts, read 1,445,088 times
Reputation: 467
I think you're being a little unnecessarily picky with the situation. They seem like they are trying to do the right thing with giving notice- they did offer the 30 days initially. I would have offered to let them prorate the 11 days before demanding that they pay rent for Feb and forcing them to leave earlier. Especially considering it was only 11 days short of 30 day notice. That way you have rent coming in until you are back to check the place too. But whats said is done I suppose.

Who are they to surrender the keys to if you are not there? Can this individual act as your agent and take a quick look at the place for you? I don't think that holding their deposit until you have a chance to inspect is necessarily a terrible thing, but I do think that withholding money to pay for the 11 days in February is somewhat cruel, especially since they were responsible and adjusted their plan to vacate your place accordingly rather than refusing to leave or pay rent. Will it break your bank to allow them to keep it pending no damage? Were they good tenants? It sounds like they need the money to lay down on a new place, hence the needing it asap.
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Old 02-01-2013, 06:36 AM
 
Location: Manhattan
25,398 posts, read 37,151,865 times
Reputation: 12817
Don't push it tcloud. Furious tenants still in possession have the means to make you regret being petty with them. If they left on Thursday and the place is undamaged, send them the security deposit

But why weren't they out yesterday? Do you have a set of keys by which to enter and see if they are gone and the place looks okay. If so, do so.

On the other hand, if they are still THERE, then it is reasonable that you take the security deposit for February rent because then THEY are "pushing it." They know full well if they are in possession in February they PAY for February.
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Old 02-01-2013, 03:37 PM
 
Location: NY,NY
2,896 posts, read 9,824,004 times
Reputation: 2079
Quote:
Originally Posted by tcloud View Post
Hi,

Our tenants' lease ended on 30 Nov 2012. On 11 January 2013, they gave notice that they were vacating and would be out by the 10 February. When I indicated that they would need to pay rent to cover February, they returned with their intent to vacate on 31 January and anticipated the return of the security deposit as soon as possible.

It's my understanding, that when they went to a month-to-month (after the lease expired), NYS Housing Laws took over and they are required to give 30 days notice (for NYC). Also, as I'm out-of-state, I will not be able to inspect the apartment, to check for damages that I believe they didn't have repaired (they only indicated cleaning), until mid-February./
Yes, there lease agreement converted to a 'month to month' tenancy. Legally, they are required to provide 30 days notice.

In your case, in order to *legally* vacate, they s/h provided notice on December 31. In which case, they w/n *legally* owe any further rent; and w/b entitled to the return of their security deposit, subject to the cost of *damages*.

*****

Now, in your case, the tenant provided "notice" on January 11th. Legally, due to the date of notice, you, the LL, is entitled to February rent.

The question is whether YOU wish to be an aggresive or generous LL. Some would let the tenant go and move on. Others, very aggressively, stick to the letter of the law.

The likelihood is that Tenant did not comprehend the law anymore than yourself!! If he/she ultimately was a good tenant, then why start acrimony at this point? Small LLs need to realize that, in the real world, everything does not work perfectly, and sometimes, it is more efficient to absorb some costs! A month's rent due to *transition* is fair and reasonable!

Quote:
Are they due the return of the deposit? I don't think they are, as at least part of it can be retained to account for unpaid rent - which would be February, and part for potential damage - which I need to check for. They also haven't surrendered the keys.
Well, have you made yourself available for a walk thru? Available for the keys to be returned? The keys c/b mailed or left at the premise; but, it is your responsibility, if you are unavailable (out of town), to make yourself available. There is no acceptible excuse, on the LL's part, in this regard.

You cannot *delay*, because you are away. You cannot hold their security for *your* convenience! Legally, LLs are required to return the security within a **reasonable** time period!. A judge will determine what is "reasonable".

Quote:
I would like to respond to them in a timely manner, but also want to make sure the information I have is correct.

Can anyone help clarify this for me?
In NYC, tenants usually need their deposit for their next apartment rental. So, tenant's will attempt, and in many cases it is expected.

New York Security Deposit Limits and Deadlines | Nolo.com

In most instances, 'ordinary wear and tear' is absorbed by the LL, and the security deposit is returned in full.

New and/or amateur LLs, often expect the apartment to be returned in the alleged 'pristine' condition, they believe it was rented. The reality is that ordinary wear and tear is the LLs responsibility.

For example, if you rented with newly painted white walls, and the tenant painted them purple, the tenant is tequired to pqint the wall back to "pristine white". If the tenant did not paint and live with the original white walls, but the LL feels they need to be repainted, in order to re-rent, the cost is the responsiblity of the LL; and, is considered, "normal wear and tear".

More example, if carpeted, and delivered initially in pristine and/or good condition (nor cigarette burns, no spills, etc.), then the tenant is required to return the carpet in a *like* condition.

If the carpet was *new* at rental, but is in good *not* new condition, having suffered *normal* wear and tear; yet the LL desires *new* carpet for the new tenants. The LL is required to absorb that cost.

If all the carpet needs is *professional* cleaning to restore to *good* condition, again the LL must absorb this cost, as the consequence of normal wear and tear.

The general rules above, will apply to all things and conditions of the apartment.

Generally, most issues are the consequence of " normal wear and tear".
The tenant is NOT required to return the apt in *pristine* condition.
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Old 02-01-2013, 03:43 PM
 
10 posts, read 15,059 times
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I appreciate the feedback. I didn't realize I was being petty/picky. I thought I was expecting people to honor the terms of their tenancy. I've not raised their rent since they moved in, and I've paid for repairs that were really due to their negligence. In re-reading my original post I see where there could be a misunderstanding...I did mean that they needed to cover the part of February that they were still in the space.

But, maybe you're right, better to just let them go.
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Old 02-01-2013, 04:17 PM
 
Location: NY,NY
2,896 posts, read 9,824,004 times
Reputation: 2079
Quote:
Originally Posted by tcloud View Post
I appreciate the feedback. I didn't realize I was being petty/picky. I thought I was expecting people to honor the terms of their tenancy.
They appear to have done so! The only discrepancy is the 11 days of of notice. It appears, they w/h given proper notice, if they had been *fully* aware.

You yourself, are not *fully* aware, and it is YOUR business; as well as, responsibility to be FULLY aware. So, it appears, you holding the tenant to a higher standard than yourself.

Quote:
I've not raised their rent since they moved in....
Yeah, well, that is what LLs do when they have a *good*, who pays the rent, relatively on time, and creates few problems. They do in order to encourage the tenant to stay and continue their *good* behaviour.

Quote:
...and I've paid for repairs that were really due to their negligence....
To be frank, that is a matter of opinion!! Perhaps, it was, perhaps not, negligence, but yours is a singular perspective. Surely, you don't expect NOT to have to make some repairs during a tenancy?!

Quote:
In re-reading my original post I see where there could be a misunderstanding...I did mean that they needed to cover the part of February that they were still in the space.
No it was clear!!

It also was clear, that both parties, have a similar confusion re the law and its requirements. It is rather apparent by not renewing and converting to month to month, the tenant was preparing to move. Did you not realize this?

It is also "clear", that with proper understanding of the law, the tenant w/h simply provided an addional 11 days of notice!! So what is the point in hassling them, on this issue?

It is a simple matter of *reason*, and *reasonableness*.

Quote:
But, maybe you're right, better to just let them go.
Yup.
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Old 02-01-2013, 05:13 PM
 
10 posts, read 15,059 times
Reputation: 10
jcoltrane - thank you for the information. I didn't see your reply, until after I had posted my own.

Frankly, they've been a pain, and I let them get away with a bit during their time with us - but, that's on me. I do know that when I was last in the unit, they'd caused some damage to the walls (holes) that I'll have to have repaired (I doubt they corrected it).

Also, they had indicated just a few days before, that they wanted to continue on a six-month lease - to which I agreed.

No matter, I get it - the stress isn't worth it.

Thanks again for the feedback.
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Old 03-10-2014, 08:19 AM
 
1 posts, read 1,412 times
Reputation: 10
do you have to give reasons for not renewing a tenants lease if you give them 60 days notice?
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Old 03-10-2014, 08:28 AM
 
Location: New York City
19,061 posts, read 12,755,145 times
Reputation: 14783
Quote:
Originally Posted by sailor813 View Post
do you have to give reasons for not renewing a tenants lease if you give them 60 days notice?
I should think you don't need to give any reason if it's a free market apartment
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Old 03-10-2014, 10:44 AM
 
106,979 posts, read 109,241,493 times
Reputation: 80382
Landlords rights????? Is that like jumbo shrimp,pretty ugly and happily married?
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